Lawrence Wilkerson: NATO will split if proxy war with Russia continues, raising the risk of nuclear

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Destroyer of illusions, Jul 24, 2023.

  1. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    You know what's a problem? Stereotyping and generalizations and tribalism instead of giving matters the thought they deserve and giving other people with different points of view the respect they deserve.

    Seems to me you're tilting at windmills in imagining liberals to attack and blame for whatever you perceive to be wrong.
     
  2. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    I replied to a post that condemned “deplorables” and you condemn me for generalization?

    Classifying arguments as types is way different from classifying people as part of a tribe even though you did your best to ally yourself with Hilary Clinton’s disgraceful faux pas. There was no nuance whatsoever in your post. It was exactly the kind of post you are condemning me for. All I am doing is championing a point of view that places responsibility for American fascism at the door of the liberal elites that sneer at working people. Winning these working people over would ensure the complete and utter defeat of American fascism. It is the failure of liberalism or “the Left” that is responsible for its own nemesis. The triumph of the Right always follows the failure of the Left. Every time. In Germany and Spain it was the betrayal by Stalinism. In the USA it was the collaboration of the Left with America First. Learn your history, which repeats itself, as Marx said, first as tragedy and then as farce. First as a direct alliance with American fascism by a Comintern that was in alliance with Nazi Germany, now as an abdication of responsibility of leadership and the application of power. This argument is clearly in an honourable tradition of radicals everywhere in all times who take issue with fake arguments and hypocritical “saviors” who tell oppressed people what’s best for them rather than address the very real everyday issues that face them. Defenders of sectional interests and elite financial interests. Millions of working people recoil at a liberalism which they should be able to rely on because of the sanctimonious arrogance of Leftists blaming ordinary people for their own ills.

    Your own words have betrayed you as a supporter of such tribalism, evidenced by the sneering at “deplorables” and grouping of all sceptism to liberal arrogance as fascist insurrection - your own post. Commentators like Frank - a Democrat dissenter who knows his enemies arguments well - address the patronizing scolding of liberal elites to poor white people better than I have. You would do well to click the link and listen to his wisdom if the raw truth of what I post is too much for you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2023
  3. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    What is interesting to me is how many people have chosen to self-apply the "deplorable" label and chosen to be offended by it accordingly. Hillary Clinton was talking about "half of Donald Trump's supporters" way back, back before he had even a majority of Republican supporters, and she prefaced what she said with "to just be grossly generalistic."



    She goes on to define what she means by the "basket of deplorables":
    "The racists, sexists, homophobic, xenophobic, islamophobic, you name it."

    And goes on to say:

    "Unfortunately, there are people like that, and he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites. It used to only have 11,000 people, now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive, hateful, mean-spirited rhetoric."

    And more still beyond that. And she was entirely right that he boosted such people. He has brought their thinking and their rudeness and meanness into mainstream politics. He has inspired a lot of hatred and even acts of violence against minorities, against members of the media, our elected representatives in Congress, the current president and vice president, and so many others. He foments and revels in hatred as he spreads it with childish, mean-spirited, divisive, corrosive rhetoric. He tells vile and pernicious lies about everybody and everything that stands in his way. He keeps encouraging his supporters to do violence on his behalf, keeps vilifying everyone who opposes him even in the slightest.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2023
  4. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    I don’t self identify with your “tribalism” at all. I am quite the intellectual equal and liberal saint that fake Hilary is. I use all the right pronouns. I positively discriminate on the basis that all the bigots are leaving the best candidates for me. It’s generally a matter of courtesy and kindness. What I object to is the blaming of working class people for their own predicament and the adoption of culture war positions by elite liberals who benefit personally from this. There has always been xenophobia and racism and bigotry in the world. It is the fault of the powerful who use this evil trick to divide people, not the vulnerable who buy the snake oil out of desperation. I don’t buy the snake oil and your arrogance in putting me in that box just underlines your own tribalism and lack of nuance.

    The Democratic Party has since Clinton blamed working class people for their own predicament rather than the manipulators and charlatans who have exploited and manipulated them. It has literally imprisoned them, including millions of black people, in its puritanical conservative attitude towards personal responsibility and crime. Have you ever heard of three strikes and you’re out, a racist filthy policy by Clinton towards marginalized Americans? It has left the causes of crime and the seeds of bigotry to flourish whilst adopting a sycophancy towards liberal elites that is truly shocking in its insensitivity. It has provided the marketing material to the snake oil salesmen and then sneered at the desperate people who bought it. When it comes to fascism which in America is very real today, it is important to distinguish between the corrupt tricksters who lead and the desperate people who are their victims. And this is only a phenomenon because of the moral sanctimoniousness of the good and the great in River City who have abandoned their own people to the machinations of Harold Hill.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2023
  5. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why do you target "elite liberals" when it's elite conservatives who are fomenting these culture wars in the first place?
     
  6. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    Because liberals are my tribe and I look to my own to take responsibility before blaming some external bogey man. Reactionaries are a fact of life, a permanent feature of the landscape. For ever. Everywhere. The point is how to counter this.

    And American liberals don’t reject the culture wars, they revel in them. It’s good sport. They take the bait. They wallow. Especially the Clintons. They promise to be the black person’s friend as they mercilessly crap on them with their reactionary policies on crime and welfare. To put it simply they are fifth columnist traitors that do the devil’s work, who are lauded and canonized by liberal elitists to a sickening degree.

    And they derail attempts to decry real fascism with factional self indulgence, as with your posts here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2023
  7. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Trump (R)adicals are not a bogey man. They're real people who have done real violence and threatened much more.
     
  8. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    But to you all your efforts to reduce prisoners -
    "1) just shoot them
    2) check them out of windows
    3) sell them as self-spreading fertilizer " -
    did not help. Despite all this, the United States has the largest number of prisoners in the world. :roflol::roflol::roflol:
     
  9. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    We'll see soon.
     
  10. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    The Germans shot a commercial.



    But the same can be shown about the USA.

    And meanwhile in Russia.....

     
  11. Heroclitus

    Heroclitus Well-Known Member

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    deleted
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
  12. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    The Germans did not shoot that commercial. The 'destroyer' is spreading lies (again). That is Russian made propaganda video. The Kremlin at work again accompanied by lies.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
  13. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member Donor

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    yeah...you're right....your prisons are filling up with kids protesting against the war...what is it now 7 years for saying "War" instead of special operation.
    Look son, whatever way you slice it you guys are living in a totalitarian craphole...you may like it....you come over as one of these sad old farts graving for the old days of Stalin. If that's your bent then fine
    But your kids don't. You can post your vids of selective people in Moscow or whatever having a cup of coffee or shopping...who cares....can they say "Putin's a warmongering c**t and should f**k off and die!" No they can't because they'd be put in prison....which brings us back to 1 to 3

    oh and for the sake of consistency....ahahahah......:roflol::roflol::roflol: ....

    Quick question...in your posts why do you bother with these? Is it to help you make sense of your own sad little world?
     
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  14. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would not say "Filling up" .. now labeled "Domestic Terrorists" in this totalitarian craphole .. starting to filter in... the canceled.
    "oh and for the sake of consistency....ahahahah......:roflol::roflol::roflol: ..."

    That is a laugh as well this Kangaroo Justice system .. anything but .. Now we got "Forced Medical Treatment" by these Blue Neocon wing nuts .. Biden running around trying to Jab people.. Adolf would be proud.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
  15. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Biden isn't running around trying to "Jab" people, mate. Had he done so, though, many lives likely would have been saved. Lives of people who voted and likely would continue to vote against him.
     
  16. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Banned

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    Why do you figure that?
     
  17. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Actually, this is an example of the appeal to authority fallacy.

    Appeal to authority fallacy refers to the use of an expert’s opinion to back up an argument. Instead of justifying one’s claim, a person cites an authority figure who is not qualified to make reliable claims about the topic at hand. Because people tend to believe experts, appeal to authority often imbues an argument with credibility.
    https://www.scribbr.com/fallacies/appeal-to-authority-fallacy/
     
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  18. Nemesis

    Nemesis Banned

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    If anything, NATO is growing stronger in response to Russian aggression.
     
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  19. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    For sure. Its members have a clear need for it after so many years of most feeling pretty relaxed about major adversaries and the threat of large-scale war in Europe, and adding Finland and Sweden contributes a lot to the alliance, as will Ukraine's eventual membership.
     
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  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ummm yeah D .. Biden the Jabber was indeed running around trying to Jab aka - Mandatory Vaccination .. "Vax Mandates"

    Were you seriously that far out of the loop you never heard of the Vax Mandates. Forced Medical Treatment .. just like in the good ol days of the Third Reich .. Your Boy Biden .. and hipster Fauci..

    And whats more .. that "western propaganda" you claim doesn't exist --- this Tyrannical Nazi Regime came with Propaganda O Plenty .. Censorship -- the whole 9 yards friend. How is it you missed all that ... like standing on the tracks missing the midnight train to Georgia

    never did never did aye mate ? didn't know the Spiked Koolaid was spiked. all livin in disingenuous oblivion .. sup wit dat ?
     
  21. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    There was nothing beyond some employers opting to require vaccination. Nothing from Joe or anyone else in the government, comrade.
     
  22. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    Don't be jealous of the way Russians live. I am showing you in the video the reality of what is happening. And if in your country only oligarchs live like this, my condolences to you. But envy is a bad thing. Envy is a mortal sin. So don't be envious.

    As for criticizing Putin, watch Russian TV and you'll see - Putin is criticized in about 90% of the programs about him and his policies.
    For example, there is a program on Russia's main TV channel. It's called "Evening with Solovyov." It's on at the best time. 99% of the guests of the program are harsh critics of political, economic, military, etc. decisions of the Russian leadership.
    No one is arrested, no one is imprisoned.
    Maybe you get your information about "tyranny in Russia" from the lying Western media? As we all know, even American presidents say - Western media is fake news.
    By the way, don't forget that you live in a country where repressions take place even against former presidents. This is the level of African dictatorships.

    And of course a new video about Russia. An English-speaker (American or British or Australian....itd) makes a video about Russian subway.
    Take a look and you can compare it, for example, with the New York subway.

     
  23. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    In adequate countries it is customary to take seriously the words of a person about his occupation, if he has worked in his field for many years and has had career growth.
    In your country, positions are held by random people whose words are not taken seriously?
     
  24. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    example of the appeal to authority fallacy - is to be taken seriously by the Western media. As we all know, even American presidents call the Western media - fake news.
     
  25. TheKeefer

    TheKeefer Active Member

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    How did all those military expert opinions work out during the 20 years in Iraq/Afghan?
     

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