Left vs Right in USA

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by MrSunday, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. rwild1967

    rwild1967 Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    But it is true. How many states recently tried to pass bills that would make it legal to discriminate against homosexuals?
     
  2. rwild1967

    rwild1967 Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    I'm not dodging anything. I have stated over and over that I am not a racist. I have asked you to produce anything anywhere that may contradict my statement that I am not a racist. You have been unable to do so and just keep saying that "my side" is racist. like I said, time to put up or shut up or admit you are lying about me.
     
  3. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

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    You said they wanted to rid the world of gays, now you are claiming that the Californians were trying to get rid of them by keeping marriage certificates from them? Did Bill Clinton really want them all dead when he took credit for and signed DOMA? Wow. I was unaware. I will make sure to vote against his wife in the next election, she supported it too and must want what you say she wanted. Thank you for opening my eyes

    Now why does the thought of too many white people in a classroom make you want to start kicking kids out and busing others in against their will? What about their white skin makes you think they were responsible for the actions of your party in the past?

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    Will you say that affirmative action is wrong and racist, that keeping whites out of My Brother's Keeper is wrong and racist? If you say that I will apologize, 100%.
     
  4. VanishingPoint

    VanishingPoint Active Member

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    That last sentence is the answer in a nutshell. It is a travesty/perversion. I can't think of a word to describe the horribleness of it. We are becoming more and more corrupt, greedy, miserly, and we don't seem to want others to have shelter or food because it seems such a great expense while we buy jet skies and ruin the natural waters of this nation and drain the Colorado River dry so we can turn a desert landscape into pretty green grass. Nature is no longer good enough.
     
  5. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

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    Go forth and live in nature vanishing point. Don't be a hypocrite and waste your time on computers that take up nature for yourself.
     
  6. rwild1967

    rwild1967 Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    And now we're off on wild tangents. I suspect you are simply a troll so I quit.

    Good Day Sir.
     
  7. Moderndaydrifter

    Moderndaydrifter New Member

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    IMO the Left is all about the "Party" and will do anything and use any and everyone to gain and stay in power. The Left is about control and are control freaks. The Right claims to be anti government so it should act that way. Teach it's Religion in the Churches and homes and ask for and take nothing from the Government. The Right should stay completely away from the social issues that the Left pushes. Gay rights and gay marriage and those types of wedge issues should be avoided by the Right. If the Right would do this it would take everything that the Left has and would take their oxygen. Until the people knock the two parties to their knees there will be this constant battle between the bottom feeders that use wedge issues and social issues to stay in power.
     
  8. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

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    Couldn't do it could you? The hatred is pretty deep within you my friend. A normal person can just say "no I believe it is wrong to judge a kid based on their race or to blame them for the sins of people who share their skin color." That is a pretty easy a normal and easy thing to say. Just typing it would have given you the win and proven me wrong for constantly calling you out. But the Uncle Tom in you couldn't do it. Now go forth and hate my racist friend.
     
  9. undertheice

    undertheice Well-Known Member

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    as we have all come to expect, you have taken the sentiments of the few and attributed them to all those you wish to vilify. the reality is that even the most staunchly religious of my conservative acquaintances don't feel it is their place to eliminate homosexuality. they may feel that it is wrong, that it is immoral or even that it is evil, but they also realize that it is a matter of personal preference and not subject to their interference. unlike the liberal establishment and its drone-like supplicants, they really believe in the sovereignty of the individual and the sanctity of personal choice. for them "class" is what students attend or a state of graciousness and respectfulness, not a category of social hierarchy. they treat everyone equally, black or white, rich or poor, altering that treatment only when the actions of those others so warrant it. they may feel more at ease with people whose attitudes more closely reflect their own, but their final judgement on all is determined by actions and not appearance.

    this is the problem with this right/left paradigm you hold onto so tightly. you've built up this "right wing" boogeyman and placed any opposition into that category. your description of the evils of big business is an even better example of the asinine nature of this false paradigm. what you have described is the robber baron stereotype made popular by mass market entertainment. i'm sure you could rattle off a list of a dozen companies that loosely fit that description, just as i could come up with a list of a dozen more that are their exact opposite. we could go back and forth like that for days and barely scratch the surface of the millions of businesses out there, most of which are conscientious, law abiding and considerate of both their employees and their customers. your depiction of big business is, quite frankly, an embarrassment to anyone out there with more than two brain cells to rub together. the vast majority of them recognize the necessity of reasonable regulation to protect the environment, the workers and society at large. they aren't out there pillaging and raping the consumers or creating the impoverished masses to slave endlessly in their sweatshop labor camps. that's simply not good business and they know it. the robber barons you are so certain the right wing consists of can only exist with a complicit state. only the state has the sort of power to negate the people's basic rights you attribute to this evil right wing boogeyman.

    now, you may very well be some thirteen year old, sitting in his bedroom and waiting for his mother to call him to dinner. you may be some naive liberal arts college student, wasting his time on nonsensical studies that will never do him a lick of good and dreaming of a new society where the vast amount of useless information he has crammed into his head will merit him some meaningful place in the new hierarchy. if either of these are true i can give you a bit of leeway and hope you grow out of it. but if you have any experience in the real world i'm afraid you'll just never get it. reality is not the same as a movie of the week.
     
  10. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    Who on the right supports torture?
     
  11. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    ...at the expense of others.

    The left support leveling everyone toward poverty by taking from those who have created wealth to give to those who have not earned it. From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

    The right support equal opportunity. The left support equal outcomes regardless of skill, talent or effort. The left support enslaving a few for the benefit of the many.

    It is no wonder we live apart.
     
  12. willburroughs

    willburroughs Well-Known Member

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    This from somebody who thinks his little verbiage shows some intellectual superiority.
     
  13. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    I agree that left/right is not useful. I believe the balance is between those who prefer the state to have the power to do as it chooses versus people who prefer to have the state support and protect individual liberty and freedom as its highest goal. For the first the state must have the authority to do as it pleases. I call this side authoritarian statism and its adherents are authoritarian statists. Progressives, liberals, national socialists (fascists), international socialists, libertarian-leftists all fall on this side of the equation.

    I have not found a good term for the side I prefer where the highest goal of the state is to preserve and protect individual liberty and freedom. Constitutional Conservatives and libertarian-right tend to be on this side of the equation.
     
  14. rwild1967

    rwild1967 Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    I am a 47 year old state college educated small business man and single father of two. I have plenty of experience in the real and nasty. I have traveled widely and seen and done things many have not. I have worked for corporations large and small, and currently own/operate a small chain of retail stores.

    All I can say to you is "I call it like I see it." Living in Kansas I know lots of conservatives, and while there are some who are pretty much live and let live on social issues it certainly does not describe the majority.

    The large corporations I have worked for seem to me to be considerably more concerned with personal profit than the environment or the employees.
     
  15. rwild1967

    rwild1967 Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    This is the viewpoint the right wing talking heads would have you believe. It is not in fact, truth.
     
  16. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    LOL. No. But we did warn you. :)

    Obama, the first Affirmative Action president, was gifted the presidency twice. Why?

    Despite all of his efforts to deconstruct the nation, to push much of the middle class into the lower class and to reward his crony capitalist money laundering friends, the nation is slowly recovering. Imagine how good we could have been if we had had a President who loved the Constitution and the nation instead of Obama.
     
  17. undertheice

    undertheice Well-Known Member

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    as authoritarians require a certain amount of collectivism in order control their "subjects", the term i prefer for the other side of the coin is individualism. you won't find a common term for it because it is not a philosophy that easily lends itself to the committees, political organizations, and power brokers who usually coin such terms and make them popular. it is an ideology which, though it is the very essence of modern conservatism, is distinctly unpopular among the powerful and their sycophantic followers.
     
  18. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    This is clearly not true. We have so many regulations no one can give a clear count any longer. A few years ago we had a bit more than 100,000 regulations involving hundreds of thousands of pages covering every imaginable thing. I have not researched this in a while but the last time I did the federal government was publishing around 400 new regulations every month. Roughly two million busybody bureaucrats can do enormous damage.

    We have become a fascist nation, allowing the semblance of private ownership but with massive government controls.
     
  19. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    This is not possible. I am a Constitutional Conservative. I have openly gay acquaintances. If you want to be gay then be gay. If you want to normalize gay relationships then convince the majority of people to see it your way. I object to the courts interfering in things the people should decide for themselves. The legislatures should be the place of action for these kinds of social issues, not the courts.

    Regulation has gone well beyond that level which is good for society. Many of those regulations have criminal penalties. Not even people in government can say just how many criminal penalties have been written into regulations written by the nearly 500 independent regulatory agencies. But it does explain why they feel the need to have paramilitary divisions to enforce their laws.

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    Tell me what you mean. Give some examples.
     
  20. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    "...at the expense of others.

    The left support leveling everyone toward poverty by taking from those who have created wealth to give to those who have not earned it. From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

    The right support equal opportunity. The left support equal outcomes regardless of skill, talent or effort. The left support enslaving a few for the benefit of the many.

    It is no wonder we live apart."

    How does your system work if it does not take from people like me who work very hard, have talent and succeed?

    Where, in your world view, does the money come from to allow everyone to eat and have shelter, even if they are unwilling to work for it themselves?
     
  21. rwild1967

    rwild1967 Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Arizona lawmakers pass controversial anti-gay bill
     
  22. rwild1967

    rwild1967 Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Well, we can start by insisting that everyone with a full time job is paid enough to eat without government assistance.
     
  23. ManifestDestiny

    ManifestDestiny Well-Known Member

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    If there are so many criminal penalties in regulation, why do CEO's NEVER go to jail? I absolutely never hear about someone going to jail for braking rules and regulation, instead I hear about middle/lower class people flooding the jails for non-violent crimes lobbyed for by huge corporations. What you say is ass backwards.
     
  24. ManifestDestiny

    ManifestDestiny Well-Known Member

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    Why dont you stop being so dammed lazy and just read the first paragraph to see what its about?

    "Arizona's Legislature has passed a controversial bill that would allow business owners, as long as they assert their religious beliefs, to deny service to gay and lesbian customers."

    Do you really need his opinion on this for you to have an opinion on it? rwild's opinion is very clear, this bill is discriminatory against gays there is really nothing else you need more to want to destroy it.
     
  25. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    "Regulation has gone well beyond that level which is good for society. Many of those regulations have criminal penalties. Not even people in government can say just how many criminal penalties have been written into regulations written by the nearly 500 independent regulatory agencies. But it does explain why they feel the need to have paramilitary divisions to enforce their laws."
    I suppose it depends on what you mean.

    Most people opt to not start a business or close it rather than deal with the huge compliance costs.

    In my opinion the criminal penalties are there to coerce people not to actually charge them.
     

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