Leftist quandary: Hong Kong protestors wave American flag, sing our national anthem

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Medieval Man, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You don't get it. Everywhere that communism has thrived, USSR, Cambodia, Vietnam, Cuba, China, and North Korea to name some only got there by killing all dissenters and then ruling though fear. Marxism is such idiotic tripe it is impossible, the only thing that comes close to allowing its stupidity to fester is complete totalitarianism. The Marxist fantasy cannot exist, because human nature is utterly opposed to such subjugation...
     
  2. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    How many humans died from Christians stealing land from the inhabitants in this nation when it was developing?
     
  3. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Yet Trump and Putin are such kamrades, da!
     
  4. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    This nation was found on blood and iron also killing all dissenters and killing the leader of a new religion called Mormonism..The Soviet Union was no more than capitalist communism same as every other communist nation in history. Including the one that Trump loves and admires North Korea from where he is sent beautiful letters of admiration and bedtime stories..
     
  5. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Being literate helps...
     
  6. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please don't bother me with whatever delusions you are having...
     
  7. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    While I agree that we must respect their authority to deal with their own internal matters, I think there's a lot more we can and should be doing, mostly diplomatically while assuring that we're not interested in going to war over Hong Kong, but we can exert a lot of pressure without ever firing a shot. Trump has done that over trade, a kind of pointless exercise in my mind, but there are other ways we can exert pressure.

    The British were in essentially the same boat in 1997, they couldn't say they wanted to keep Hong Kong without making the Chinese living in Hong Kong British citizens, which would have added five million Chinese to the British population total, but they couldn't also deny Hong Kong to the Chinese without getting into a war over it, either. So they made the best deal they could and hoped for the best. Most Hong Kong residents were happy with the deal at the time, or at least pretended to be. I remember the thousands of Chinese flags being flown in Hong Kong after the handover.
     
  8. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    First of all no one's leaving China at the moment but if they did come they wouldn't be jumpin the fence and it's guaranteed every one of them would have bonafide refugee status. Every one of them would be employed within a week of arrival, learning english and soaking up as much American culture as they could. They would jump through all the hoops they'd have to, to become a productive valued American citizen. You can bet no Democrat would be rolling out the red carpet for them.
     
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  9. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    I am sure you are a lousy prognosticator since you already have the fallacy of pigeon holing several million people.
     
  10. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    The question you have to ask yourself is which country is the wealthiest on earth (capitalist America) and which country is the poorest on earth (communist North Korea) to see which system works and which system doesn't. And then the question isn't how many people did Christians kill, the question is how many of its own people has America killed? In comparison to communist countries, the answer is none.
     
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  11. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are so full of it. This nation didn't kill every dissenter, nor did it slaughter every Mormon. Ever heard of Utah? How about that Mitt Romney, he even ran for president. Or was that a ghost? Now show us similar things in the Soviet Union or any communist hell hole and we can try this again, otherwise I'm done with your delusions. You seriously need to learn some US history, it will make you appear a whole lot less ignorant...
     
  12. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    Clearly you have never read Marx or Engels or understand what conditions were like in European cities at the time they wrote. Communism as theorized by Marx, Bakunin, Proudhon has never been allowed to thrive as it has always come under attack by those afraid of an idea.

    It is very true that early experiments like Mao's failed miserably but so did many of Capitalism's first attempts out of the cradle.

    Modern socialism tries to propose a critique of capitalism to mitigate it's worst excesses which are well-documented.

    Of course, modern neo-liberals and right-wingers will have none of it and are merrily whistling along the road to the next big economic disaster.
     
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  13. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    This would actually be a good way to exert pressure on China to keep Hong Kong free. If Trump threatened to offer refugee status to all five million Hong Kong residents who would rather leave than live under Chinese tyranny, the Chinese might reconsider sending in the troops. Because you can bet your ass all the millionaires in Hong Kong would jump ship, and China wouldn't be happy about THAT.
     
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  14. Medieval Man

    Medieval Man Well-Known Member

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    You got that far, realized I had wrote something that doesn't agree with what you hear in your echo chamber, and refused to read any further.

    I had links and everything, pointing out how many liberals/progressives/socialists don't see a difference between a patriotic American and a white nationalist. This is what leftism has wrought on our nation:

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/11/trump-nationalism-patriotism-difference.html
     
  15. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    I said it killed the leader of a new religion...US humans are no different than any other humans they do the same things as other humans do in other nations don't lie to me I know the history. You can piss off now since all you want to do is twist words to conform to your attempts at stating intelligence.
     
  16. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Hardly is China going to invade Hong Kong....Yet if it does the US can't do a damn thing about it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  17. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I can see your point, but I don't see but I don't see a US interest here. The only way anyone in China can ever be free of communism is if they earn and fight for it themselves...
     
  18. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see, you lies are starting to unravel so you run. Bye-Bye!!!
     
  19. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Every attempt to bring Marxism to light has ended with millions dead. There is no other way because the entire ideology is based on theft, and most people aren't just going to give up what they have earned because some commie asks for it...
     
  20. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The situations are different in how they came to be.

    The Chinese see both as belonging to them. If they move with force on one, why would they not proceed on the other?

    They've been threatening Taiwan for a very long time.

    If they move on Hong Kong, I doubt Taiwan will be far behind.
     
  21. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    And fail spectacularly. They still haven't figured out that Communism means everyone works ... no exceptions. And NO ONE gets to be an 'artist' 'musician' 'sociologist' 'activist' or any other of the array of 'careers' that Progs favour. Those useless and lazy poseurs will be put on a tractor for 10 hours a day, 6 days a week. Right next to someone who loves Jesus and Donald Trump :p
     
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  22. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't you have a democrat governor famous for his blackface and moonwalk impressions?
     
  23. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    Also a fair point. But as an American, I am sympathetic to the wishes of those who want to be free, and while I don't think we should get into a shooting war every time some group declares independence, I think we can and should do more than stand by and watch in the case of Hong Kong.

    Agreed, but if you remember Radio Free Europe and other forms of propaganda as well as the continued pressure put on the Soviet Union by American policy all during the Cold War, there's a lot we can do to encourage and educate the Chinese people in fighting for their own freedom.

    Separate topic altogether, but I think we should have a "TV Free Middle East" to promote the Western concepts of freedom, justice, religious tolerance, and democracy throughout the Muslim world. If we want to win the war on Islamic extremism, we have to make it clear to Muslims that they are living under a repressive ideology that prevents them from having everything we have in the West.
     
  24. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    Mainly because we can park the 7th Fleet between China and Taiwan, something we can't do in the case of Hong Kong.
     
  25. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    It's worse than that. The first group the Communists kill is "the intellectuals", which they interpret as anyone with a college degree. So the Marxist professors would be the first ones to die in a Marxist regime, followed quickly by their students who graduated.
     

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