Let's debunk one of liberals' belief — healthcare should be a fundamental right

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by FixingLosers, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    Or we could elect honorable people once again, roll back the Leviathan, tame the liberal monster and destroy the beginnings of Marxist European socialism. And that will be enough.
     
  2. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    Most web site allow me to see the contract. Where do I go to see the contract you are discussing? I do not agree with it and I would refuse to install the package if it came with your contract. I want my money back.
     
  3. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    I love straw men. They are so "scratchy!"
     
  4. SpaceCricket79

    SpaceCricket79 New Member Past Donor

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    Pick up a rifle and take it back then. The rest of us don't care what you want. :lol:
     
  5. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    You...do...not...have...a...right...to...food.

    You must buy it.
     
  6. CharlieChalk

    CharlieChalk Banned

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    death panels are an invention of the conservative right in america, no such things exist. I'm going to bed now.
     
  7. SpaceCricket79

    SpaceCricket79 New Member Past Donor

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    So are you, you're just in denial of it :lol:

    You're kidding right? You have to be :lol: In America people not only have a right to food, but a right to beer and cigarettes with their EBT cards.
     
  8. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    Australia does have a shortage of doctors, one can never have enough doctors. Australia also has a shortage of other skilled workers and profession people. This is more so in rural areas. It has nothing to do with UHC. We just aren't training enough medical professionals. The reason is, the huge expectations put on medical students. Getting into university to train to be a doctor is very difficult. To get into university as a medical student requires a very high Tertiary Entrance Rank (student entry ranking in some states). There was once talk about lowering the TER for medical students, but the medical profession knocked this on the head, stating they only wanted the best and brightest students.

    Rural areas are a problem, not only with doctors, but also with other professions and skilled workers. Young people are moving away from rural areas in droves to seek work in the cities. This is a common practice in most developed countries. Nowadays, doctors, teachers and other skilled professionals aren't being attracted to rural areas mainly because of lifestyle in the cities and money earnt. This is a worldwide problem.

    Australia doesn't import doctors willy nilly. There is a process an "imported" doctor has to go through. They are strictly tested and monitored so they meet the high standard of Australian medical professionals. If these standards aren't met, they have to through a process of retraining. Many doctors from overseas just don't make the grade and will end up as "secondary" medical professionals, usually as nurses or even as hospital clerical staff until they make the grade. This could take a few years.
     
  9. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    In fact that is what governments are for.
     
  10. misterveritis

    misterveritis Banned

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    Why do you hate health care so much that you want to diminish it?

    How about treating it as it actually is? it is a good, and a service that can be purchased when one wants to. One can pay a third party to accept some risks for a fee. or one can bankrupt it by getting the government involved.

    The government should get completely out. Completely.
     
  11. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree... to a point anyway. Humanitarian and cost-benefit have to go hand in hand when it comes to public funded healthcare. You have to balance one with the other. Do you see wisdom in running up increasing debt from year to year just to pay for public programs? How do you balance need with budget? Heck if I know, but I don't think that Obama knows either. Just my opinion though.
     
  12. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    Kinda funny how assumptions can bite you on the arse!

    I'm nearing retirement age. I could retire now if I want, I have the finacial means to be self supporting. I'm just not ready to retire mentally.

    During my working life I have accrued more wealth by being creative than you will see in a lifetime.
     
  13. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    One thing being missed is providing everyone with at least good basic health care is good for society and can be done using private market service and government overside look at Germany. Otto Von Bismark hated government programs but universal access to health care was seen as good for all it assured people were healthy to work, serve in combat and communicable diseases were kept in check. Its a safety net to help if there is an outbreak of a disease poor people and the rest will seek care when its early, poor people otherwise won't seek care until its unlikely to help and promotes the spread of such a disease. And it removes common worries of things such as if you get sick you lose all your money and go into debt to a good degree.

    May I ask if a pandemic hits and for want of people having the means and will due to having that card for an insurer or Medicaid go to the doctor early onset and slow this disease from spreading as fast maybe to you critics would it be worth it then?

    Want proof parents are not vacinnating their children and adults are losing immunity and guess what diseases are hitting one child in my area got polio after a man from India came in and infected the child a disease here was nearly dead. The world is a lot smaller it won't take much to bring in many diseases whooping cough, polio and the like and what about a serious thing like a the influenza outbreak that hit in the early 20th century? If that hit now it would be a nightmare.

    Now I don't beleive state of the art best of care is a right but certainly well known ordinary care is.
     
  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Because unless there are very strict guidelines profit wins over care

    What everyone really wants is a system that is paid to make you better but private hospital models actually get more money for longer stays
     
  15. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    This is not always the case,, especially in developing countries.
     
  16. Hate_bs

    Hate_bs New Member

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    Taking property of one man to give to another is stealing. Even if done for 'good' reason, it is still stealing.
     
  17. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    You don't have clue what you're talking about. Ever been to a developing country? Come to Laos Sweetheart where healthcare is very substandard. Even those with means duck across the border into Thailand for even the most basic procedures like annual health checks. Those who don't want to travel (and travel time is actually quite short for many), go to clinics run by foreign doctors. Those who don't have the means just put up with substandard healthcare.
     
  18. Hate_bs

    Hate_bs New Member

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    Because promptly ownership is sacred in US republican democracy. Controlling your own property is controlling your own destiny. Another person who has power to take your property has the power to control your destiny and your rights. As in the example of slavery, they do not even own thier bodies. With universal (which is really MANDITORY) healthcare, you no longer have the right to maintain the health of your own body. You have become a slave. Those who trade a little protection by giving up a little of thier freedom, deserve neither freedom or protection.
     
  19. Hate_bs

    Hate_bs New Member

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    Correction, you do not have the right to another man's food, no matter how much he has and how little you have.
     
  20. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    Utter bloody tosh!

    Australia has a workable UHC system where one has the choice to get treatment as a public or private patient. We also have the option to take out private medical insurance.

    No-one in Australia has lost control of their body. You are being ridiculous.
     
  21. stroll

    stroll New Member

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    It is quite tedious to argue against the misconceptions about universal healthcare amongst rightwing 'merkins and the blatant ignorance of how it works in other countries.
     
  22. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    How rightwing Americans view universal healthcare.

    "Mummy mummy,,I don't like brocoli"
    "Johnny, you've never eat brocoli before"
    "Yeah, but the kids in grade three told me it'll turn my face green"
     
  23. Gwendoline

    Gwendoline Well-Known Member

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    Of course you despise me. It goes with the territory of those against universal health care / those not caring about the welfare of anyone but themselves.The Despisers, lol. No doubt, many of The Despisers are Christians, too.

    Me, I don't despise you. I couldn't be bothered. But you and some others here are certainly a callous lot. Come to Australia talking that pathetic line about health care and you would be laughed at. And deservedly so. This country has LIVED universal health care for 37 years. I come to this forum and it is a backwater of antiquity... backward thinking, like people stuck in the dark ages when it comes to health care.

    Universal health care is THE RIGHT THING TO DO. When people are ignorant and don't know it is the right thing to do, it's probably cos they prefer despising people over that of wanting people to have access to an adequete quality of life. The Despisers. It's all about priorities. Despisiers hate universal health care. They must hate the idea of their neighbours and little kids and those with cancer and other debilitating illnesses being looked after. The Despisers. O, tremble and shake...
     
  24. SpaceCricket79

    SpaceCricket79 New Member Past Donor

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    We already have univeral healthcare - for our prisoners.

    The fact that our prisoners have access to healthcare which normal, law abiding citizens don't - shows what a crock the current healthcare system is - we should just implement it.

    A lot of the guys whining about 'their money' probably don't have a clue how unnecessary military spending on ineffective experimental hardware. Better training has always won the day over simply having the latest gadgets - take a look at ancient Sparta and the battle of Thermopolye.

    In the long run, we should implement universal healthcare, and crack down on WELFARE which is prone to abuse and exploitation - healthcare would be immune from those problems.

    Unlike Australia however, I'd like both universal and private healthcare to exist side by side, rather than completely eliminate private sector healthcare for those wishing to pay for better quality services.
     
  25. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    We have both private AND public healthcare in Australia,,we have that choice. We can also be privately insured AND have universal healthcare running in conjuction, many people do.

    As for "better quality service", a medical professional wouldn't know if you are being treated as a Medicare patient or a privately insured patient, so the treatment is the same. And to be honest, a doctor in Australia wouldn't even give two hoots.
     

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