Liberals Love Trump's Tax Plan... When Told It's Bernie Sanders' Plan

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by HB Surfer, Oct 20, 2017.

  1. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    I don't even know why this conversation is going on.

    One of two things is going to happen.

    The most likely is that Trump's half baked plan will flounder before it even gets introduced (McConnell will no doubt try and slam this through with no amendements, no debate, and no hearings, just as he failed with the health care bills.

    Or.

    Trump will settle for a quick and easy tax cut, one not offset in any way. This will have the predictable effect of driving up the deficit considerably. But the Trumsters won't care.

    They'll get a check in the mail from Uncle Sam, and they won't notice that the money that paid for it was money they borrowed and will have to pay back.
     
  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    We have several times but the last two times helped create strong economies lots of tax payers with rising incomes and record tax revenue increase surplus budgets or close to it. What is bad about that idea?

    I note another attempt to divert.
     
  3. ManWithNoName

    ManWithNoName Active Member Past Donor

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    The only other time was JFK's tax cuts that passed before Vietnam started; and went into effect after we began that conflict - which is not cutting taxes during a war; it's cutting taxes before a war and not changing.

    And sure; back to the point:

    https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/the-legacy-of-the-2001-and-2003-bush-tax-cuts
     
  4. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    I never mentioned "Democrats" once in the quote you posted. So it looks like you're trying to create an "issue".
     
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't know what you point is about a war but the fact remains the last two tax rate cuts produced balance or nearly balanced budgets and record tax revenue increases with full employment meaning more tax payers with rising incomes. What was bad about that?

    The Bush tax rate cut once fully implemented produce record tax revenue increases and brought the deficit down to a paltry $161B exactly the opposite of the predictions you posted. And the Clinton tax rate increases slowed economic growth and tax revenue growth from 9% down to 7%, it was the Gingrich/Kasich tax rate cuts to got the economy going again and tax revenue growth hit double digit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
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  6. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    SHARRRRRRRPIEEEEEEEE!! You were talking about democrats, liberals, progressives, etc. Zuckerberg is a wealthy corporatist who is cooperating with the FBI and IRS and not protecting users of his product from unwarranted surveillance. I hardly think he fits your list.
     
  7. ManWithNoName

    ManWithNoName Active Member Past Donor

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    Did you read the article I cited?

    The whole argument that income-tax cuts are the best solution to spur economic growth is a fallacy. The current Trump tax plan is going to cost trillions of dollars of revenue for the government; as it stands now it heavily favors the already wealthy and the President has already stated he wants to build/maintain a border wall and increase military spending. This is not responsible for the national debt, not good for the middle class and is not the panacea to economic growth that is often argued as argued by article I cited.

    You want to cut the corporate tax rate? Sure. You want to propose a true middle-class tax cut; or infrastructure spending, then sure lets talk. Otherwise this is irresponsible.
     
  8. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Liberals Love Trump's Tax Plan... When Told It's Bernie Sanders' Plan

    Sounds alarmingly familiar. . .like Trumpsters hating the Affordable Care Act because it had Obama's name attached to it, without ever taking time to consider its merits.
     
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  9. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Neither of which is true.

    Reagan's tax cuts in 1981 did not turn the economy around. Four years later, unemployement was actually higher, and interest rates had only dropped slightly. In the spring of 1985, Saudi Arabia flooded the market with oil, causing he OPEC price regimen to collaspe and driving the price of oil down. That's when the boom started.

    When Bush cut taxes, the deficit exploded, as his critics warned. On top of that he added the total cost of an unnecessary war (and claimed it shouldn't be counted as part of the deficit). Cheap money and non existant enforcement of the financial sector ignited a speculative boom, that manufactured the illusion of prosperity. In reality, middle class wages were stagnant throughout the Bush years, and the poverty rate actually rose. In the meantime, Bush's policy of cheap money and his decision to look the other way regarding the dirivitives market created the illusion of proposerity as millions borrowed their equity in return for a cheap payment, and spent the money. Banks ran wall to wall ads every day to encourage this practice. The White House stood back, knowing that the illusion of prosperity this created would be good for them politically. In the end, the house of cards collapsed.

    I don't know where you got the bizzarre idea that these tax cuts resulted in surpluses or near surpluses. You either made that up, or heard it from someone who did.

    Reagan's tax cuts tripled the federal national debt.

    Bush's took that debt and doubled it again, and left a near depression and a lingering borrowing hangover in its wake.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  10. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I heard about this on the news on the radio. It doesn't surprise me, there was another one of these done several years ago where John Stossel I think, took a Republican plan and said it was Obama's plan and everyone of these kids was for it. Most partisans don't even bother to look at the plan or issue, they just take their parties word or favorite politicians. Very few people, not only college kids bother to look into these things. Yet, these folks decide who holds elected office and who leads this country.
     
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  11. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Oh, it will be offset alright -- by a $1 trillion cut to Medicaid and a $0.5 trillion cut to Medicare. of course, the remaining $1.5 trillion missing are put on the national credit card.

    Guess who'll be majorly hit by those benefit cuts. Yes, the poor and the elderly. They'll be paying for the tax cuts for the rich, which they'll in turn take and stuff under the mattress, as they have done with their record corporate profits in the last decade.
     
  12. TRFjr

    TRFjr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    why do you lie? when all it takes is a quick google search to prove you lie

    [​IMG]

    as you can see by the chart the economy was a little over1% gdp 1st quarter in 81 then sky rocketed over 9% 3rd quarter right after the tax cuts and stayed above 7% for the next 4 quarters

    now lets look at your other blatant lie about unemployment


    [​IMG]

    Reagan peaked at just under 11% unemployment at the start of 82 and then plummeted to 7% at the start of 84% and if you notice unlike Obama the labor participation rate continued to clime during that time showing it was real job's being created not those giving up looking for work like they did under Obamas drop in unemployment
    now what was is it that you claimed? unemployment was higher in 85 then 81 just a flat out lie


    I know you are able to spread your bull crap lies with your liberal cohorts on this forum they are either to lazy or ignorant to fact check you
    but that crap doesn't fly with me
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  13. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Reality check. Trump beat the snot out of the entire united RP establishment without running an ad.
    Then he beat the united RP/DP establishment to win the presidency on chump change, without running ads, and without a campaign machine.

    Think - fast.
     
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  14. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    Reality check. Again, many Republicans voted for Trump because they supported the Republican nominee, as is the usual.
    Again, many of us have realized that this guy is incompetent to hold office, and is taking our country down a perilous path. Too bad you are unable or unwilling to admit your mistake.

    Thimk---slow
     
  15. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The Republican establishment is in abject denial, and that is political suicide. Overdue too.
     
  16. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes and it made the typical leftist false assertions that the Bush tax rae cuts caused the 2008 and 2009 deficits. That is totally false did you note the graphs start at 2009 two years after the Democrats took the congress leaving out 2003-2007? We had RECORD tax revenue increases what don't you understand? The last Republican deficit then was a measly $161B. Then the Democrats took control of the budget and fiscal policy and spending increased 9% in 2008 and then 18% in 2009 taking the deficit to $1,400B in just two years.

    And the surpluses were NOT due to Clinton tax increases. Go look at tax revenue growth. He came in on strong growth revenue growth and his tax rare increase SLOWED that growtb. He even admitted at the time he raised taxes too much. It was the Republicans taking back the congress and inspite of Clinton getting tax rate cuts and welfare reform passed that sent the economy into overdrive and tax revenue growth hit double digits and with their spending restraint produced the surpluses.

    In both instances the highest earners paid hugely more in tax revenues and a larger share of them whike those at the bottom paid less.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  17. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Both are true and while your post has already been rebutted I will make a couple of points.

    It most certainlybplayed a role and your unemployment statement refuted above.

    Nobit did not, it grew after the tax rate cuts were PASSED but not fully implimented due to the recession. The tax rate cuts were to phase in through 2006. His attempt at demand-side, Democrat like stimulus, policy with the tax prebate failed. Then in 2003 the the bulk of the tax rate cuts were fully phased in the economy went inti high gear revenures exploded and the deficits peaked at the one year $400B and the with the huge tax revenue increases rapidly fell to $161B in 2007.

    Then the Democrats took control of the budgets and fiscal policy.


    Not when the Republicans were in control.


    And the home equity thing goes back to the 1980's when the Democrats wanted to raise taxes on the hugh earners so the eliminated deductions for interest paid except on home loans forcing people to mortgage there house fornlarge purchases such as a new car. That lawn of unintended consequences.

    Nothing bizaar about the history. I have posted time and time again what happened to just capital gains tax revenues after rates were cuts are you denying those revenues went up?

    Congressional spending made it go up.

    He did nothing of the sort the Democrat Congress did.
     
  18. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    If you were a typical liberal student you were still packaging the liberal conclusions of the snowflake masses
     
  19. Channe

    Channe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In all fairness, that works both since I've seen Christians become very critical of versus they think were from Islam, but then turn around and use the "out of context" excuse when they find out it's from the Bible.
     
  20. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. Dems put in policies that halted your buddy bush's crash.
    Will you still rinse and repeat.
     
  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    What kind of a limp reply is that??? It's no reply. It's a personal opinion steeped in contempt and bias and says nothing about the subject of college professors or courses.
     
  22. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Its an observation
     
  23. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    "Campus Reform" stages these things periodically for the express purpose of entertaining you by pandering to the stereotypes you expressed in your post.
     
  24. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for making my point.

    BTW, I did not mention the fact that one of the reasons that unemployment appeared to drop in late 1984, was because the Reagan Administration changed the way the unemployment rate was counted, which also affected the participation rate statistics.

    Using your own graphics, it's very clear that Reagan's 1981 tax cuts had little effect on unemployment, which continued to grow substantially for a year after they were passed. They began to drop, and but were still at the same level they had been when he took office when he stood for re election. The one thing that changed, was that our annual budget deficits had exploded. Oh, the size of the Federal government was exploding too. Reagan was a great one for expanding Federal government jobs.

    It is generally misleading to base claims solely on GDP growth, as recoveries tend to go on for well over a year, or longer before most people feel it at all. That was true in 1981 and again in 2011.

    I voted for the guy twice, and for George HW Bush twice (I still think George HW was one of the better Presidents of my lifetime).

    Otherwise you statistics pretty much match my post.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  25. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What do you think about the plan?

    There are blind followers on both sides. Its too bad most people are unwilling to respectfully discuss the real issues.
     

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