LIBERBAL propaganda; the DOJ is NOT independent of the president.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lee_Wang_Tran, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Lee_Wang_Tran

    Lee_Wang_Tran Newly Registered

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    False liberal talking points of the day, that the DOJ is independent of Trump.

    1) Per article 2 of the CONSTITUTION

    principal officers of the executive branch “serve at the pleasure of the president”. This means they better do what the president says.

    2) The Attorney General takes an oath to the constitution, to article 2, to the fact he serves at the pleasure of the president. He acknowledges and takes an oath to serve the president, to serve Trump.

    3) The DOJ is not independent, Congress is independent, they don’t serve at the pleasure of the president, Supreme Court is independent, they don’t serve at the pleasure of the president.

    THE AOG IS NOT INDEPENDENT! He serves at the pleasure of the president. If the DOJ was meant to be independent, the statue wouldn’t have created them as part of the executive branch.

    Tired of liberal lies calling DOJ independent.
     
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  2. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Well-Known Member

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    Trump is the head law enforcement officer in America.
     
  3. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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  4. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  5. Lee_Wang_Tran

    Lee_Wang_Tran Newly Registered

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    LOL did you even read the article?

    That article gives numerous examples of presidents telling the DOJ who to prosecute.

    It goes on to state not laws but “traditions” and that there’s a “history” of prosecutorial independence, but also gives specific examples of how that is not true starting with Washington and the Whiskey rebellion.

    That article conflicts with itself on the degree of spin it presents.

    Explain it to me, why can the president fire the AG at his pleasure if the law commands the AG to be independent from Trump?

    The reason is that it doesn’t, liberals only wish it does.

    I love how the article spins Dershowitz as a radical while some unheard of law professor writing a article on legal ethics is the gold standard
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  6. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    WASHINGTON — Andrew G. McCabe, the former deputy F.B.I. director and a frequent target of President Trump, will not face charges in an investigation into whether he lied to investigators about a media leak, his defense team said on Friday.

    The decision by prosecutors in Washington ends a case that had left Mr. McCabe in legal limbo for nearly two years. It also appears to be a sign that Attorney General William P. Barr wants to show that the Justice Department is independent from Mr. Trump.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/14/...tion=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

    All prez's exert some degree of influence over DoJ policy but typically maintain a firewall on day to day decisions.............ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO MATTERS THE PREZ HAS A PERSONAL INTEREST IN like the Stone case.
     
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  7. Lee_Wang_Tran

    Lee_Wang_Tran Newly Registered

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    lol so your evidence that the DOJ is independent is to quote an article that speculated as to the motive of Barr in making a prosecutorial decision. “Appears to be a sign... wants to show...” lol speculate much?

    Also, you said presidents “typically” maintain a firewall on day to day operations

    again you cite no laws and no authority for why the DOJ is independent. O wait, you can’t cite laws because the DOJ is not independent.

    The president can choose to interfere or not interfere. It’s a choice, per article 2 he can interfere if he wants.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  8. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    Read this................

    Independence and Accountability at the Department of Justice
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/independence-and-accountability-department-justice
     
  9. Lee_Wang_Tran

    Lee_Wang_Tran Newly Registered

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    LOL, did you read that article? It claims the main protection of independence by the FBI, is the fact there are political ramifications if Trump fires the head of the FBI.

    So the independence of the DOJ and FBI is independent because Trump has a boss in the voters?

    LOL that is not independence that just means the voters can fire Trump if they don’t like that Trump fired someone else.

    So if the voters want the DOJ to listen to Trump, they’d have to. Is that independence? What a joke, and accountability can exist even if the DOJ is separate from the executive branch. Congress and the courts have accountability despite the fact they don’t have accountability to the president.

    DOJ is part of the executive branch not for accountability purposes but to help the president implement his vision of justice.
     
  10. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    "Those are the main “legal” guarantees of DOJ/FBI independence. They are very few, and they are not the most important. The most important guarantees of DOJ/FBI come not from the Constitution or statutes, but from norms and practices that since Watergate have emerged within the Executive branch.

    Every presidency since Watergate has embraced policies for preserving DOJ and FBI independence from the President in certain law enforcement and intelligence matters. These internal regulations and memoranda, and the norms they foster, acknowledge the President’s ultimate power and responsibility for law enforcement and intelligence while at the same time recognizing that in certain matters, the Executive branch needs internal divisions of authority that achieve a type of independence from presidential control. One example is the restrictions that every administration from Carter to Trump has placed on communications between DOJ (including the FBI) and the White House concerning law enforcement investigations and other matters. Another is the Special Counsel regulations that govern Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s conduct and termination."
     
  11. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    Since and because OF Watergate, the DOJ has been independent of the Oval Office

    no longer
     
  12. Lee_Wang_Tran

    Lee_Wang_Tran Newly Registered

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    A lot of words to try to say a lot of presidents made the choice to not interfere, not that they can’t interfere lol.
     
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  13. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    I should note too that the construct of your OP is a strawman argument. Independence being a relative term essentially meaning independent from the prez politicizing the DoJ as Trump has done, not that they are statutorily independent.
     
  14. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    I'd agree with that. Almost every prez understands he shouldn't interfere and therefore does not. Trump just does whatever he wants without fear of reprisal (political consequences) because the has turned the GOP in to his sock puppets.
     
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  15. Lee_Wang_Tran

    Lee_Wang_Tran Newly Registered

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    Lol Obama interfered with DOJ business a lot. And he can do that cause he president
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
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  16. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

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    Fell free to give an example of Obama interfering with a criminal case involving a friend as Trump has done.
     
  17. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  18. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wrong, it has always been part of the executive branch. There no 'independent' branch...
     
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  19. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    So we in effect have a KINGDOM where the president can forgive and forget any and all indiscretions by his cohorts????
     
  20. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is truly a laugh.
     
  21. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They are independent in the sense that their oath is to the Constitution not to the mighty orange one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  22. Lee_Wang_Tran

    Lee_Wang_Tran Newly Registered

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    Yeah, we always had. If you don’t like it, start a movement to amend the constitution.

    Ford pardoned Nixon cause Nixon was his friend.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSN2921897720061229

    "I looked upon him as my personal friend. And I had no hesitancy about granting the pardon because I felt that we had this relationship and I didn't want to see my real friend have the stigma," Ford, who died on Tuesday at age 93, told journalist Bob Woodward in a 2005 interview.


    Trump can absolutely pardon or interfere in Stone’s case. The only ramifications if anything is political, but if people that support Trump want stone pardoned, there are none.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  23. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    No. That is most definitely not what it means.

    Public officials are not the President's personal servers. They pledge to defend the Constitution.

    After 3 years of this lawless regime in which the Constitution is optional, you probably just forgot
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  24. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    He is right that the JUSTICE DEPARTMENT is under the Executive branch and not the Judicial, which seems ass backwards to me ???
     
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  25. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But the AG does not "serve at the pleasure of the president." That is the most asinine conclusion. Ever.
     

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