LIBERBAL propaganda; the DOJ is NOT independent of the president.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lee_Wang_Tran, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member

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    Just one thing I'm going to mention here as my first post on this awesome site: is it true or false that the US constitution actually contains the phrase, "serve at the pleasure of the president"?

    Find the word "pleasure" anywhere in the document, https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  2. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Actually, the answer is... hell yeah!

    https://nypost.com/2020/02/14/trump...o-order-william-barr-to-do-anything-he-wants/

    Or, if you believe that Trump for the first time in his presidency is telling the truth about not asking Barr to intervene, you can see Barr's "summary" of the Mueller Report. Or this

    https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/horowitz-barr-trump-russia-probe-082448

    Or his obstruction during the Mueller investigation...

    I mean... "one instance"? That's funny!
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  3. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

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    WRONG again, you are always wrong and getting schooled here, constantly.

    Trump never obstructed mueller, he gave muller everything he asked for and let him complete investigation. THIS IS FACT.

    and Trump is Barr’s boss, he has constitutional and legal right to intervene. Whether you like it or not, Trump IS chief law enforcement officer in the land of U.S.A. Trump is Barr’s boss, you know what it means when someone is your boss? He can order you..
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  4. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    I sho' am. But not by you.

    Wrong!

    Mueller (C1, C2): "We received the President's written responses in late November 2018. In December 2018, we informed counsel of the insufficiency of those responses in several respects. We noted, among other things , that the President stated on more than 30 occasions that he "does not 'recall ' or 'remember ' or have an ' independent recollection"' of information called for by the questions. Other answers were "incomplete or imprecise." The written responses , we inform ed counsel, "demonstrate the inadequacy of the written format , as we have had no opportunity to ask followup questions that would ensure complete answers and potentially refresh your client 's recollection or clarify the extent or nature of his lack of recollection." We again requested an in-person interview , limited to certain topics , advising the President 's counsel that "[t]his is the President's opportunity to voluntarily provide us with information for us to evaluate in the context of all of the evidence we have gathered." The President declined." [What follows is redacted]​

    You're not much of a challenge, compared to others on this forum. But if you don't mind the embarrassment, you're welcome to keep trying.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
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  5. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

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    but mueller DiD get what he asked for and was never fired. FACT. Dude you cannot fight FACTS! The mueller investigation was allowed to do it’s job. You lose, again and again and again.
     
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  6. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    How about Trump's interference in the sentencing recommendations by the DOJ, for Roger Stone? A long time fixer for Trump, and a convicted felon, for obstructing justice, witness tampering, and making false statements(perjury). After Trump tweeted his outrage over his friend's 9 year sentencing, and after his meeting with Barr, the DOJ told their own seasoned attorneys that their sentencing recommendations were too harsh. 4 of the 5 attorneys stood down in protest, because of Trump's meddling. How about Trump's meddling in the Russian investigations, and telling Jeff Sessions to fire Mueller? I think the Post puts it best, “If you are a national security official working for a malignant, infantile, impulsive, authoritarian wannabe, you need to stay in your job as long as you can to mitigate whatever damage you can — before the mad king tires of your sanity and fires you.”

    A brief history. Attorney General Barr, who is supposedly running the DOJ, has now become Trump's enabler-in-chief, for the Trump family criminal organization. He has taken the place of Michael Cohen, a two-bit crook now in prison, who never quite lived up to the standards of criminality and viciousness set by Cohn. Cohn(disbarred and died of AIDS), was Senator McCarthy’s top lieutenant during the witch-hunting anti-communist paranoia of the 50's. He became Trump’s personal lawyer and mentor, helping him become the shameless, loudmouthed bully who fought off countless lawsuits, and the criminal investigations into his sham real estate businesses. Trump needed to find any government lawyer, who was willing to help him lie, obstruct justice, and abuse his power in the same ways that he was certain Cohn would have done. After firing all non-sycophants, and anyone who stood up to him, Barr(DOJ), joined the ranks of his other enabling "yes men". Like, Pompeo(DOS), Graham(Senate Majority Leader), Haspel(CIA), Esper(DOD), Carson(HUD), Mnuchin(Treasury). This gives a true narcissist direct control over our money, military, politics, foreign policy, and our federal laws. Any rational person, should be very concerned about the threat to our Democracy, and the abuse of Presidential Power.

    There is nothing in Article II of the U.S. Constitution that suggests the President is the nation’s Chief Law Enforcement Officer. NOTHING, except wishful thinking for the biased, the gullible, and sycophants who believe, that if you keep repeating a lie long enough, it will eventually become the truth. The President has seven historically recognized constitutional duties."
    1. Chief of State. This role requires the president to be an inspiring example for the American people, a living symbol of the nation.
    2. Chief Executive. The president is the “boss” for millions of government worker in the Executive Branch.
    3. Chief Diplomat. The president decides what American diplomats and ambassadors shall say to foreign governments thereby shaping the nation’s foreign policy.
    4. Legislative Leader. While Congress enacts all the laws of the nation, the Constitution gives the president the power to influence its lawmaking.
    5. Commander in Chief. The president is in charge of the U.S. Armed Force: Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, and Marine Corps. All military personnel take orders from the president.
    6. Chief of Party. The president directs the course of his or her political party.
    7. Guardian of the Economy. The president monitors such things as unemployment, high prices, business profits, and the general prosperity of the country."
    The Attorney General is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer, NOT the President. What does this President know about the Law, except how many ways he can break it? That would be like saying, if water is made up of two gases, therefore water must be a gas. It is the AG that represents the US on all legal matters, NOT the President. It is the AG that advises the President, and other executive department heads on legal matters, NOT the President. It is the AG that runs the DOJ, NOT the President.

    You mean like Bill Clinton? Do you want a list of other investigations of Democrats through the years? When will either of you two understand that no one is above the law. If the evidence proves that the President murdered someone in cold blood, he will go to jail? Secondly, when will you two understand, that there is very little difference between Democratic and Republican ideologies? You should be looking at the government as a whole, not along imaginary party lines(divide and conquer and confuse). The battle between political views is only theater, not reality. Society only suffers more, when people like you two, champion for people to take imaginary sides. We are the UNITED States of America. Not the BLUE states or the RED states of America. Why can't Trumpians posit more than just parroted words, unfounded assertions, half-truths, and the logic of a mature DODO? Our country is better than this, and deserves better than this. Why do Trumpians conflate all issues and government actions, as only being partisan? The killing of 10 foreign citizens in a drone attack, would be wrong, no matter what party you belong to.

    You might enjoy these two YouTube Aussie videos, as a wake-up reality-check. Or, not!
     
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  7. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    "I know the Trump administration, with the complacency of their base, is attempting to turn this country into a dictatorship."

    Haaahahahahaaa!
     
  8. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes. That fits into the category of: conjured up in one's mind.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  9. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    Do you mean the truth category? I know that is always easy to simply deny the reality of the truth, whenever it threatens your own personal biases. But facts do not lie, and the convergence of facts is truth. If you are purposely denying, or conflating the facts, as "fake news" or "conjured up", then you are delusional, and clinging to your confirmation bias. Are you seriously suggesting that none of this ever happened? Maybe it is best, that you keep your head buried in the sand.

    These tactics are nothing new for Trump. He surrounded himself with "yes men", in his private and business life, and he is doing the same thing in his political life.

    Trumps administration is becoming an extension of himself. A good leader WELCOMES opposing opinions. A good leader, will admit whenever they make a mistake or has misspoken.(Africa is a s**t hole country). A good leader does not fire people who disagrees with him, he finds the compromise. A real leader leads by example, not though power. A real leader commands respect, not ridicule. And, a real leader, listens to the voices of all the people, not just the people who agree with him. Trump displays none of these leadership qualities. This is what one would expect, from a sociopathic narcissist. Fortunately, it is our Constitution that protects us from Populists, Autocrats, Plutocrats, Monarchs, Dictators, and Oligarchs. Not people like you.

    My father once told me, "It takes very little intelligence to speak your mind. Any idiot or child can do that. But, it takes a lot of intelligence, to know HOW to speak your mind". Trump only cares about himself, and his legacy. He would lie about his father's birthplace, if it will give his image a fake since of humility. He is a crook, a racist, a misogynist, an apathetic bigot, an egotistic narcissist, and a con man. I can only rationalize, that Trump was the better of the two evils. He, or any man like him, would never be welcomed on my property, or in my home. It was through corruption, that the best candidate was eliminated(Bernie). Yet people like you don't even raise an eyelid.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  10. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only question I have left is how much bigger is the liberal carbon footprint with all this whining? It's got to be close to hyperventilation level, you even know how much CO2 that's adding. Unbelievable!!!
     
  11. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    What??? I just proved to you that he did not get what he asked for! You just re-quoted it yourself. Mueller in his own words.

    Unbelievable!
     
  12. Thought Criminal

    Thought Criminal Well-Known Member Donor

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    "Do you mean the truth category? I know that is always easy to simply deny the reality of the truth, whenever it threatens your own personal biases. But facts do not lie, and the convergence of facts is truth. If you are purposely denying, or conflating the facts, as "fake news" or "conjured up", then you are delusional, and clinging to your confirmation bias. Are you seriously suggesting that none of this ever happened? Maybe it is best, that you keep your head buried in the sand."

    You cannot prove the poster's claim.

    "the convergence of facts is truth"

    That's an interesting idea. Does it then follow that, as there is no such convergence, the claim is false? Or: Do we need a House investigation; in order to find out?
     
  13. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    A random law professor says so I should ignore the Constitution?

    Give me a break, the attempts of the Left to destroy law or change the conversation using things like:

    "Anonymous sources say"

    "Professor/teacher states"

    "Study shows"

    Have been proven to be wroth less than the paper they are printed on. No body believes the Left anymore, 2020 is going to be biblical.
     
  14. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    RodB said:
    Other than what you conjure up in your mind can you name one instance where Trump corruptly used the DOJ? HINT: the answer is no.
    I of course was referring to real actual corrupt interference, not opinionated ramblings of arm waving cacophonic fanatics. Your over zealous protestations not withstanding, the president is the AG's boss and most certainly can direct him. Plus Trump's cooperation with Mueller far exceeded any cooperation with any other special/independent prosecutor ever. So stuff your "obstruction during the Mueller investigation" into where it belongs.
     
  15. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It makes me suspicious when it takes thousands of words to refute a post. Seems like a desperate search for some argument that might stick None-the-less: 1. Trump did not interfere with the Stone case with either the judge or Barr. The attorneys resigned because they got themselves in deep doodoo by sandbagging Barr. They told Barr they were going to recommend a sentence of X, Barr approved, and then they actually recommended Y, a much stiffer penalty. All of this before Trump tweeted.

    2. Barr being the enabler-on-chief of Trump criminal activity is simply wild-eyed arm waving speculation with zero rational and does not deserve a response.

    3. Per the Constitution the president is the Chief Executive which makes him, among many other things, the Chief Law Enforcement Officer.

    You probably conveniently forgot that it was Bill Clinton himself that asked his Democrat AG, Janet Reno, to appoint an independent prosecutor to investigate Whitewater.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  16. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh. You mean like the ones Mueller demonstrated on his report. We would probably need another Grand Jury investigation to get all the details on them. But common sense, basic human reasoning from known facts is what we have on a political forum.

    Somebody could probably demonstrate that even Charles Manson and Ted Bundy were innocent, if they just dismiss basic human reasoning. So it's a recourse frequently used by those who know they are wrong.

    And of course, if you choose to ignore, not just basic human reasoning but even the facts themselves, you could even prove that you have a pet fire-breathing dragon living in your closet.

    You could claim that Mueller lied when he explains all over his report how Trump obstructed the investigation. But you're not going to climb very high in the credibility scale.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  17. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How unfortunate that your first post appears to be a intentional attempt to promote a misunderstanding of how the DoJ and executive branch have historically avoided allowing politics to corrupt their work.
     
  18. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    So it is all in your mind
     
  19. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member

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    You sir have inaccurately comprehended the meaning of my post. The point is simply that the phrase, “serve at the pleasure of the president” does not in fact exist anywhere in the constitution.
     
  20. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And you could claim Mueller lied when he testified under oath for congress that he encountered no obstruction from Trump in his investigation. ..... and please don't ask me to find a link for you....... with your extensive research abilities you should have no difficulty.
     
  21. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Or that you made it up. Which is easy given that you provide no quotes.

    Oh... I wouldn't ask you to provide a link to something I know doesn't exist. But I would hate to see you at the level of posters here that just use this forum to make up false claims. And, for that reason, nobody takes them seriously. Better not to make a claim that you can't substantiate.

    So I'll help you out. This is part of a set of rapid-fire questions by Susan Collins in which she asks

    Collins: "...your investigation [was] curtailed or stopped or hindered?

    Mueller: "No"​

    Sounds great if taken out of context. But, as Mueller himself clarified:

    Mueller: "The President’s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests.”

    In other words, the fact that Trump 's attempts failed (and "most" of them, at that) doesn't mean that he didn't obstruct. In no way did he claim there was "no obstruction"

    For instance, the obstruction dealing with Trump's own testimony, which became a mock questionnaire. Mueller ended up obtaining the information through other means, But it's still obstruction.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  22. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    In response to your bolded text, I would say that it simply shows that there are more democrats than republicans in the DOJ. As to your capitalized text I would say that Trump couldn't care less about Stone. He just hated seeing a politically charged sentencing recommendation go against him. As we all know, he can't help himself in these matters.
     
  23. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    He serves at the pleasure of the president means he can be fired by the president. Nothing more.

    His oath
    “I will support, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”

    This includes protecting the Constitution from trump. No one is above the law. Trumps is the definitive domestic enemy of the Constitution.

    You are spreading classic Communist propaganda.

    I asked you once if you're American but you didn't answer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  24. Lee_Wang_Tran

    Lee_Wang_Tran Newly Registered

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    Xenophobic much? I am American, but why does my citizenship have to do with anything.

    I guess you think only Americans are credible lol.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  25. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A really great read from Bush's former deputy AG.

    "Bad as they are, these examples are more symptoms than causes of Barr’s unfitness for office. The fundamental problem is that he does not believe in the central tenet of our system of government—that no person is above the law. In chilling terms, Barr’s own words make clear his long-held belief in the need for a virtually autocratic executive who is not constrained by countervailing powers within our government under the constitutional system of checks and balances.

    Indeed, given our national faith and trust in a rule of law no one can subvert, it is not too strong to say that Bill Barr is un-American. And now, from his perch as attorney general, he is in the midst of a root-and-branch attack on the core principles that have guided our justice system, and especially our Department of Justice, since the 1970s.

    Perhaps most disturbingly, Barr contends that it is virtually impossible for a corrupt president to be held to account by the Department of Justice, or by any independent counsel that it or Congress might appoint."

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/donald-ayer-bill-barr-must-resign/606670/
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020

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