Liberty dies to thunderous applause, 2019 version

Discussion in 'United States' started by Eleuthera, May 12, 2019.

  1. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    If I might, I think what you are trying to say is that people, by nature, look out for their own self interest first and foremost.

    I agree with that.

    That's why certain economic systems have always failed. It's also why we have a Govt, and why we have a Constitution. As Madison once said, "
    “If Men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and the next place, oblige it to control itself.”
     
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  2. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok. You tell me, what is right? What is wrong? And by what standard do you determine which is which?

    Right or wrong—very nice floating abstraction, but what does it mean in reality, on earth?

    And, as it’s obvious you love discussing these idealistic issues, though I wonder if you are pure of heart, why not come and converse with me? You know where.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Alas, what you and I prefer is very similar to a Christmas Wish List.

    If wishes were horses then beggars would ride.

    Stringent socioeconomic control can be favorable to one's wishes, or unfavorable. When corporations get to write the laws, when they get to define the socioeconomic controls, we have one element of fascism.
     
  4. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    What is right and what is wrong is determined in part on a case-by-case basis.

    In an effort to stay on thread, in this case it is wrong, and it is illegal, for 1 country, including the host country, to invade the sanctity of another's embassy. Do you agree with that, or not?
     
  5. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The principle is one of self-defense; if it's in defense of liberty, good to go; if its the nazi's come to get the jews, kill them on sight. With respect to this case, anyone defending Maduro is defending a soul guilty of horrendous crimes against reason, against life, against liberty, against peace, against prosperity, and against happiness. To take a nation from the richest in South America to a nation whose citizens are eating dogs, cats, and zoo animals to stay alive is to commit an horrendous crime. And those who support him are complicit, including this thugs.

    It was reasonable and just to grab the thugs, and that's why it was moral.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  6. glitch

    glitch Well-Known Member

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    Well I believe the definition for that would be corporatocracy as opposed to fascism as fascism is all about government control and does not allow for any kind of private control. Fascism would not allow businesses to have any power. The government is all-powerful and obtrusive and individual as well as corporate rights are crushed. However both forms of government are an unhealthy union of business and government and we certainly have things such as corporate welfare which are excessive in our current government.
     
  7. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Tortured logic if I've ever seen it, and I have.

    You presume Maduro guilty of horrendous crimes, and that cannot be proved. Your claiming it does not make it true. Do you expect me to believe that nonsense when I know better?

    Here is a riddle for you sir: When is a war crime not a war crime? When is a violation of international law not a violation of international law?

    When we do it! :banana:
     
  8. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Geez. He kisses the asses of the Cubans, he sleeps with rabid dogs of Iran, he performs intellectual fellatio on the Russians, and the truth just flies over your head, like a soaring eagle. And it happens because your eyes are blinded by, the misguided at best, self-deluded at worst, principles of altruism, self-sacrifice, democracy, and collectivism. For you the lost of one life, or a million lives, is meaningless, as long as its done for the good of all. That's not morality, that's the principled ideology of Snowball from Orwell's Animal Farm.

    Just as property rights is not a sanctuary for monsters to commit their evil, so it is true of the vote of the dogmatic masses, drooling at the thought of receiving the unearned, and groveling and snarling at the feet of their populist leader as he throws them scrapes and bones.

    Oh, you have chosen a very bad man to defend, and a very evil idea to live by, the sacrifice of the living to the walking dead.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  9. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And deeper still, it is the "Snowballs" of the world that provide the moral cover for the human monsters that live off the blood of the living. In other words, a "Snowball" is the first step to the rise of a "Napoleon", for it is those intellectuals, the naive and the dishonest, that give permission to the dictators to fill the air with screams, the rivers with blood, and the land with graves. And it is they that bare the gravest of all guilt for the slaughter.

    The Mighty Maduro (Playing himself as Napoleon):
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  10. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again, it is simple, prohibit the state from interfering with free trade--if isn't against the law to live, the living wouldn't have to bribe the politicians for permission to do so, and the politicians won't have the whip to lash them into obedience.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  11. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    When the US commits war crimes, they aren't really war crimes in our shallow minds, they are the spreading of democracy.

    When the US practices terror, it is "nation building". When the US practices torture, it is "character building".

    And so we live in the age of the decadence of the US empire. We can imprison journalists, and it becomes "national security". We can invade sovereign embassies and it becomes "nation building" and perfectly legal in the twisted minds of brain-washed citizens.
     
  12. glitch

    glitch Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe the socialist Maduro bears any responsibility for the horrors being currently visited upon Venezuela? Do you support Maduro jailing opposition leaders before the election?
     
  13. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Damn. Substitute "Socialism" for "US", and this is the same argument you are using to cover for Maduro's crimes against the creative and the productive.
     
  14. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Did you know he has not yet arrested the imposter and usurper Guaido?

    To answer your question, I think Maduro is doing the best he can under the circumstances of US imposed sanctions after several years, including the turning off of the electrical grid most recently. I think the support he enjoys from the poor people of Venezuela confirms that.

    I know or have met several of the rich white Venezuelans who managed to flee with their money years ago, and they are rather like the wealthy Cubans or Nicaraguans who managed to flee their countries.

    The poor folks must stay because fleeing is not an option for them.
     
  15. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Can you provide any proof that Maduro has committed crimes, or are you just regurgitating propaganda points?

    Your claims remind me of a statement by Charles Sullivan:

    "We allow the most atrocious lies uttered by political and moral prostitutes to go unchallenged. These lies are endlessly recycled in the commercial media until they become ingrained in the public conscience as truth. Worse than burying our heads in the sand, we bury them up our collective ass. How do you like the view?
     
  16. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Can you prove there are rocks on the moon? You've never been there. The fact that vast majority of the people on the planet didn't know that Hitler was gassing millions, or that Guevera was butchering hundreds, or that Stalin slaughtered the Kulaks, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

    So, you tell me, is Maduro "Joan of Arc", or Castro-Lite? I think the silence of the zoos and the absence of barking and meowing, answer the question loudly. Don't you? Or are you as deaf as you are blind?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  17. glitch

    glitch Well-Known Member

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    Why do you believe the US is responsible for the horrible power grid in Venezuala? It is purported to be falling apart. Do you believe it is a possibility that some of these "rich Venezuelans" with their money as well as companies are fleeing Venezuala is because of the socialist state seizing their companies, assets and properties? Would you stay in Venezuela under those circumstances? Socialism sounds like a lofty idea in the classroom but when put into practice the consequences can be catastrophic.
     
  18. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    You're desperate, no surprise.

    Maduro is the legitimately elected leader of a sovereign nation, and we are attempting to do in Venezuela what we've done all around the globe for decades.

    He is neither Joan of Arc or Castro-Lite, oh desperate one.

    When is a war crime not a war crime?
     
  19. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Common sense tells you the US disabled the power grid there. That's how we roll. Such tactics are noted in US manuals. We took Stuxnet to Iran for similar purposes.

    We practice socialism here in this country. That's effectively what Social Security is. Socialism for the corporations is also practiced, AKA fascism. The largest recipient of that sort of socialism is what they call the military industrial complex.

    You guys are frustrated here trying to defend the US violation of embassies, and it shows with your posts.
     
  20. glitch

    glitch Well-Known Member

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    I'm not frustrated. That is not the definition of fascism by the way. I do think you shouldn't accuse the US of sabotage without evidence though. The horrible state of the energy grid within Venezuela is not the responsibility of the US and has been a problem for many many years.

    “Already the equipment has millions of hours beyond its recommended use, each machine has up to two years during which it hasn’t been subjected to maintenance checks; there are no economic resources for new investments, and there is no trained personnel capable of supervising necessary work.”
    https://panampost.com/sabrina-marti...l-grid-is-20-years-pushed-back/?cn-reloaded=1

    Do you agree that the socialist government confiscating businesses and resources will cause businesses to flee and prevent investors from putting any money into Venezuala? Does that not make sense to you?
     
  21. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm sorry, but my experiences in the US Army exposed me to just how corrupt and cunning the federal government is. As Pompeo candidly admitted a few weeks back in talking about his CIA, "We lie, we cheat and we steal". I knew that in 1971 when I got out. Another thing they do is offer fake evidence, like Gulf Of Tonkin.

    The lying, cheating and stealing was revealed in the Pentagon Papers a few years after I was out, but the material did not surprise me.

    Once again, the US has attempted to install a puppet government with Guaido, and it has now invaded the local Embassy, violating numerous federal and international laws in the process.
     
  22. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Do you have a video of the entire arrest?

    No?

    Why not?

    I suspect to shows the lefty resisting arrest
     
  23. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Personally, I don't care if he was elected or not--elections are a moral cover for the immoral. I don't even care if he is an angel of God sent to earth to heal selfishness--he is a murdering, socialist, psychopathic sociopath. Only his DNA says he's a human being, not his ideas, not his choices, not his life. He's a flee worshipper, and purveyor of death, and lover of sores, puss, and tears. But don't judge him by what I say, move to Venezuela, and look at the image of what his life created. It will not be easy, the truth never is.
     
  24. HB Surfer

    HB Surfer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Strange. I had a Venezuelan Uber driver last month in Florida on business. He ranted about how horrible the Maduro regime was and how corrupt they are. He said the common man is being stomped on.... it's the same information I receive from our news, I guess he was indoctrinated too. He was sad that he still has a lot of family there.
     
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  25. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, when everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts. Clearly you have demonstrated the success of those efforts.
     

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