Looking for a level-headed vegetarian to talk privately about a project

Yes, this is a solicitation for someone in this forum to talk about vegetarian topics but this is also a place to bring vegetarian notions forth. I have a good idea for a documentary made by vegetarians, for meat eaters to watch. It's not yet another guilt film- it's more. I have the funding lined up and it's a project that has legs. But I want a collabarator.

Since I have no friends that can help me, I turn to this forum.

 

I love veggies and wish I could help. Looking forward to seeing it when you are done with it.

 

How level-headed can someone be if they deny nature?

 

What is your video theme?

I attempt to avoid meat and succeeded for about a year one time, but I was starving and gave in to a bacon roll and a steak pie under the duress of playing in a 3-day basketball tournament. When expending that much energy, you crave something substantial.

A couple of weeks ago, we were on the motorway and passed a cattle truck. The cows were looking through the gap in the side. They made eye contact. They were panicked and afraid and trying to communicate. It upset me for...some time after.

I gave it up for months because when I was hillwalking, some cows befriended me and walked with me for about 2 miles. Those animals are intelligent and emotional. I hate my weakness in eating meat. No matter how everyday it is, it is not right and I know someday people will look back on us with horror for eating other living things and for breeding them in captivity to kill and eat. It's barbaric.

 

Humans are omnivores. Living things eat other living things. To say it's wrong for humans to eat other animals is like saying it's wrong for a bear to eat other animals.

 

We used to live in caves and hit each other over the head with clubs. We are used to eating other living things, which does not mean we should. In the future, we won't. And animals won't either. Because when we eventually crack that issue, it will not be limited to humans.

Animals eat other animals because it is their only option for survival, but they are smart and if a less risky option presents they will take it.

 

Eating as much meat as we do is not good for our health or the environment. Well water in some parts of the country is barely kosher down-hill from a commercial hog farm. I hardly consider it ethical to raise chickens the way that most large-scale farms do. The amount of protein we can obtain from our normal meat-centered diet could probably be more easily and abundantly obtained from vegetable sources with less environmental damage. Feeding hogs soybeans is adding a very nasty middleman to the supply chain.

 

We are used to eating living things because it is our natural instinct to do so and we have stomachs that can digest plants and animal meat.

I'm sorry, but were you serious when you said in the future animals won't eat other animals??? That's hilarious. How do you propose we stop them? Are we going to segregate all meat-eating animals to ensure that they don't use their natural instinct???

Come on Viv, you're smarter than that.

 

We are used to eating living things because someone who was hungry and couldn't find a plant, suddenly became desperate enough to eat anything at all. He bonked an animal on the head and ripped it apart, because he was so hungry. That caught on. As living without killing other living things is catching on now.

Some farmers use methods which are inhumane, unethical and frankly disgusting and disrespecting of human health. None of that is natural. Some of that is a disgrace, an abomination. If an alternative is found, people will vote with their feet and take it in preference to killing living things, as they have already demonstrated in purchase of free range eggs and organic food where they can afford it.

Because it is in fact natural to preserve life and love other living things. We are acting against nature at the moment.

No, it's just that you have never thought about the possibility of creating an alternative to eating other animals.

The do not require to be stopped. Animals eat to survive and quickly adapt to any new opportunity for sustenance. They pursue all kinds of methods in the pursuit of food. Presented with the ability to survive without risking life as they do when killing other animals, they will immediately adapt. They are not as entrenched in pointless barbarism as some humans appear to be.

My view differs from yours, therefore I'm not smart enough.

Try to stretch past what has always been, to consider what could soon become possible and what should be possible in light of the advances we have made.

 

Oh......my...........god. The (*)(*)(*)(*)'s getting deep in here.

Viv, come on now. Do you really believe that humans started eating meat because one hungry guy did it one day and it caught on??? People eat meat and have always eaten meat because it has more caloric value than plants. If humans were not meant to eat meat then we wouldn't have stomachs capable of digesting meat and we wouldn't even have a natural desire to do so.

As far as animals someday not eating meat, that's absurd. Why do you think bears switch to a mostly protein diet before winter? They would starve to death if they didn't. Meat-eating animals won't just switch to eating plants because they're there. If that were the case, they would have done it already. They eat meat because it is their natural instinct to do so and that's not going to change. And yes, animals are entrenched in barbarism but it's not "pointless barbarism" as you call it, it's so they can survive.

I still not even %100 sure that your post was serious.

 

It certainly is and that is verging on insult.

I believe if you research you will find I'm not the person who came up with that belief. People eat meat because it provides sustenance. The natural desire is to survive. If an alternative presents which does not involve killing other living things, reasonable people will take it. Because reasonable people don't really value killing for no reason.

Based on your comments you, of course, will continue to eat meat.

That's absurd. Can you not grasp the concept that many people already survive completely meat free and there are already existing alternatives to eating meat? The natural progression is to carry on developing alternatives until we no longer require to kill animals. Eventually providing the same alternative to animals is not a hugely challenging concept to me.

You're mistaking me for someone who cares.

 

yep.

Meat-eating animals already have an alternative and they don't choose that alternative. Could you please explain how they will be made to do so in the future? Are you just going to tell them to do so and hope for the best? LMAO

 

Pleasant debate style you have. Mockery.

No, I'm intelligent, not right wing. If an acceptable alternative is presented, i.e. if it is better than the current arrangement, the smart folks take it up of their own volition. At the moment it is possible to live without eating meat, but the products are still developing and have a way to go before they are as palatable as meat. I can say however, that I notice we haven't eaten meat-based sausage for a fair time and in the past people in this house would have objected to the alternative. This means non-meat sausages have improved and they have come to prefer them to real meat. As the people producing these things continue to work very hard to improve the taste and quality, the uptake of the product will continue to rise and as a non-meat sausage is probably much healthier than a meaty one, the benefits will outweigh a slight taste advantage.

As it eventually will with other non-meat products. I have tried non-meat minced beef but it's like rubber. They need to work on that a bit before I'm ready to give up the real stuff, but when they improve the product I and others like me are ready to make the change...

Btw, many of the non-meat products are cheaper now than meaty ones.

 

I'm not say I don't like veggies, but a combination of both is natural for omnivores. The fact that most people don't choose to be vegetarians kind of makes it hard to believe that they are going to choose give up meat in the future. I mean, they already have that option now, and yet very few choose it.

Btw, I'm still waiting for you to tell me how you're going to get meat-eating animals to give up meat in the future. 100 years from now, a predator is still going to hunt for prey, even if people like you tell them not to.

 

I would like to make a documentary about chickens, from the chicken's point of view. The film will follow the lives of chickens as they endure living in an intensive farm. The film will have no narraration either. The film ends when the meatman comes at night to put the chickens in the coops and transport them to the slaughterhouse. Then we'll show what happens in the slaughterhouse to the chicken.

The film ends with people eating chicken.

 

Well at least it has a happy ending.

 

I raise my own chickens and they have a very good life. They are free to roam and take dust baths when they want to, peck and scratch the ground, and they have a good variety when it comes to food.

I also raise my own pigs and the same goes for them.

I also have very trusting and gentle cattle.


But when the time comes...I either load them up for the butcher or break their necks and pluck em.

We eat very well on a limited budget...and we cruelly pick our own produce ...and kill it ...and eat it raw ,or boil it alive and eat it later....or feed it to my chickens (or pigs) and let them eat it.....alive,

 

The enemy- and my problem- is not with the eating of meat- it's with how our meat is raised for us to eat. A documentary that shows the life of a chicken in an intensive farm is a totally different thing than a cage-free chicken. The point is that intensive farming is evil.

I tell my son, who has known me as a vegetarian since he was 6 that I would eat Buffalo provided a Native American went out and killed one... there is a big difference in where your meat comes from.

 

Why only a Native American?

 

LOLOLOL..

I'll bet your fresh eggs are wonderful.

 

You're wrong about "very few", non-meat products are well in production and on sale in every high street supermarket and even corner shop.

I'll repeat it (although I can see it's pointless) it's not at the stage yet where the product is equal in quality with meat. When it becomes equal in every way and of course it will be better health-wise, then people will fully adopt it. People are not daft, they're not going to eat sub-standard food unless their ethics are extremely convincingly held.

Yet I've told you several times. When the option becomes available to animals, they will take it as everyone else does. The mechanics of it can safely be left in the hands of animal activists.

I've posted a really unsettling video here before (too lazy to dig it out again, but it was up in current events somewhere) where after running about starving for several days a wolf does battle with some big caribou type and the caribou knocks ten bells out of the wolf. They are both covered in blood and exhausted by the end and sure the wolf sustained serious injuries, but he was starving and was going to die anyway if he didn't kill the animal. Objectively, does that look as if the animal is enjoying himself, living the good life, or doing something he'd choose to do? They kill to live, that is the only reason they kill If they don't have to kill to live, it makes no sense for them to kill and being supremely adaptable why would they exert themselves in the pursuit of something they don't need?

I don't think anyone will have to "get meat eating animals to give up meat" or "tell them not to". If a better alternative is available, obviously they will take it. Why do you think they would not?

You have the absolute example of this evolution in front of your nose. All humans used to kill to eat. Now, the vast majority go down Tesco and buy the weekly shop.

Because...it is easier than going hunting and presents much less risk, plus we can buy a much wider range of food.

 

That might never see the light of day, because the people who want to at all costs avoid or deliberately conceal the reality of what we do, will discredit it at every turn.

I would watch it though and the same people who successfully fought to end battery farming here, would fight to publicise your video.

 

That's the beauty of it.

Firstly, you get funding from PETA, as they would give you a budget to film the documentary, as it serves their purposes. You also secure donations from Woody Harrelson, Alicia Silverstone and other famous vegetarians.

The budget is about $3 million, everything included, film in the can.

What you do is go to these intensive farms that make peasant wages and in essence buy them out. Give them $1 million and in exchange you get to film your movie on their farm. When the movie comes out, the farm will get sued but know what? He already got his million and is no longer a farmer- he paid off his debts and walked away.

The film would be 30-60 minutes long and show you all the horrors of raising a chicken these days as we follow a handful of them through this meat-making process. Of course there will be overtones of a concentration camp becanse know what- we raise our meat on concentration farms... intensive farming is bad!

 

Great idea.

Jmpet, yourself and Viv really should collaborate on this project. With you as the visionary (very commendable), and Viv with her ability to telepathically communicate with different animals (amazing), perhaps the plight of the common chicken can finally be told, from their perspective of course (thanks again Viv).

Any ideas for a name or title to the documentary?


"Rojo goes to market" or "****-a-doodle-UH OH!"

 

I wonder what the slaughterman would say if one of the cows he was about to kill, suddenly looked at him with those big brown eyes and said
"Please don't murder me"

That apart, I once read a Sci-Fi book in which the animals on the farm on another planet were humans who were being raised for food. They were kept in cattle type pens and their babies were taken away for slaughter after a few weeks.
There was a description of two of the aliens who were dining out at a restaurant and the discussion they had about their meal, whether to have roast stuffed baby human with veg or human meat pie They settled on the roast stuffed baby. Horrible, then I realised that is just what we do to other living creatures