Man facing charges after escaping quarantine hotel in New Zealand

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by sec, Sep 3, 2021.

  1. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What hard won freedom? We never fought for our independence and we are one of the few Anglosphere nations without a bill of rights.

    Us Australians have never much cared for freedom. We pay lip service to liberties, but because they're not codified in any meaningful sense we're left with these vague, heavily neutered rights that only serve as propaganda for the government.

    Freedom of speech is a good example. We have always had all sorts of restrictions on it, in the 1970s we decided that it should be illegal to offend or insult others. The talking point was then that free speech is only to offend your leaders.

    Now they are cracking down on speech that's offensive to politicians, brand it as harassment and call it a day. I'm genuinely unsure what we're even to pretend this freedom is anymore.

    Basically, we kept the rhetoric and lip service to our freedoms, but have neutered them wherever they conflict, even minutely, with a utilitarian cost benefit analysis.
     
  2. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    if you are ok with tyranny then you have the govt that you deserve.
     
  3. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear it. Perhaps it explains why some Australians have moved to the U.S.
     
  4. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please define 'tyranny.' Our government is doing what it's supposed to do,
    protecting me and my family from contagion. Is the American government
    less 'tyrannical' for allowing disease to spread to take nearly 700,000 lives
    and infect 40,000,000 people?

    Washed out bridge.jpg
     
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  5. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Slavery is Freedom. Why doesn't he OBEY?
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Which tells you that this 'bug' isn't anything like you want to believe it is. Nothing like this has happened before (well, not since the Spanish Flu at least), and that's why you're freaking out about its impact. Your freedoms and comforts have always been guaranteed up til now, but nature doesn't give a crap. That alone, is enough to make some people utterly lose their minds. They're literally insulted by the thought that anything should ever change, or threaten their freedoms and comforts.

    Make no mistake, this virus is not your friendly seasonal flu. And its latest incarnation is starting to kill 'young and healthy' people. The notion that we can predict its victims was reasonable when all we had was Alpha, but that was merely the honeymoon. Plus the refusal to accept why we need to suppress this virus, is a huge problem. It's not to save lives - though that's a bonus - it's to allow our healthcare systems to keep functioning as they have done. So that they can keep treating the road accident, cancer, heart attack etc victims as they always have done. Saturate our hospitals with Delta patients, and your heart attack might kill you for lack of care. THAT'S the reason for suppression, and it's the same reason every nation has tried to suppress it. No virus has created such a simultaneous burden on global healthcare systems before - ever. This is a first.
     
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  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    And THAT is exactly why it's a problem.

    When it's highly contagious and doesn't quickly kill its hosts in high numbers, you have a major issue. The only reason we don't have worldwide Ebola, is because it kills its hosts in high number. Quite literally, Ebola is safer than COVID.

    COVID becomes even worse because while it might only kill a few percent, it DOES put a hell of a lot of people into medical care of some description .. and more or less all at the same time. That will **** up any healthcare system.
     
  8. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Read this yesterday, Wall Street Journal I think -
    99.2 % of all Covid deaths occur with the UNVACCINATED.
     
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  9. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) You cannot possibly know that. The worlds' best epidemiologists and virologists don't know that. There's just as much likelihood that it will stay one step ahead of us forever, and we'll have to alter the way we live - in order to live with it. If you live on a river and the banks start eroding, you can either move to higher ground - or stay and wait to drown.

    2) So don't. Make the necessary adjustments and move on. Your refusal to adjust, is allowing the virus to 'run your life'. The equivalent of staying by the river and waiting to drown.
     
  10. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    uh huh

    protecting you? Despite this "protection", the case numbers rise

    ever hear of Ben Franklin? Perhaps look up one of his famous quotes about liberty

    As I've said before, if you are OK with tyranny, then you have the govt that you deserve. You look to incompetent people who would not be hired into responsible positions in the private sector to make decisions for you. Chew on that for a while
     
  11. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    it's a bit lower around here but the new Delta variant is hitting the un-vaccinated, most with severe co-morbidities. The same people who needed to get vaccinated.

    Walk through the ICU and about 95% of Covid patients have not been vaccinated and of those on ventilators, most will perish. Those are the numbers and nobody denies it.

    But, the Covid census in hospitals is dropping and again around here, is one-half of what it was a month ago as the peak seems to have passed.

    It's no coincidence that the drop in cases coincides with vacationers now gone back home and not infecting our hospitality workers with their Covid from up north

    But, they will be back in droves once the cold weather hits their states and bringing their diseases with them.
     
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  12. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And case numbers fall too. Fact is - we don't have the percentages many
    countries have. In Australia cases are still rare. But I believe within two years
    or so every single Australian will have Covid, but by then, hopefully, we will be
    vaccinated.
     
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The science says that corona viruses settle into a seasonal bug the offers up a new strain each season. I don't know of any epidemiologists that think covid will be any different. Influenza does that. The common cold has never had an effective vaccine and behaves similarly. I stated an opinion shared by many epidemiologists. Neither of us know but we can express opinions.

    I'm not clear on what adjustments I have failed to make. I didn't refer to any adjustments in the post. If you mean vaccination let the record show I have been vaccicnated.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  14. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Where in that very short post did I suggest that it isn't a problem. I merely inferred that it has a low death rate and it does. What motivates people to criticize me for things I didn't say?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  15. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You certainly buy the hysteria. The loss of freedoms isn't caused by a virus. It is caused by government's response to a virus. Have you noticed that nothing we have done has brought the virus under control? Yet you want more of the same.
     
  16. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What governments have done HAS brought a lot of control to the contagion.
    Look at New Zealand's restrictions and Israel's vaccinations. World wide the
    death toll is one person per 48 infections. Medication, face masks, isolation,
    border control and vaccinations have all played a part in saving millions of
    lives.
     
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  17. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    That's like saying people who tripped and sprained their ankle while running to higher ground in that flood, were not injured by the flood - but by their response to the flood. IOW, it's flamingly obvious. And it's still way better than refusing to run (the consequence of which is drowning).

    In the meantime, how do you think that most of Australia, plus the entirety of New Zealand, Taiwan, and some other nations have become virtually COVID free - even during Delta? Do you think it happened by magic or something? It ONLY happened because of these 'draconian' measures. It's a choice, and if you ask anyone who's lucky enough to live in a place which is COVID free, they will tell you that wouldn't change any of it, for anything. They are the only ones who truly have the freedoms the rest of the world has now lost.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  18. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    And that's WHY it is so dangerous!
     
  19. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) And yet not in a hundred years has the whole world had to shut down for other corona viruses. This one is not like the other ones. Not at all.

    2) I'm referring to people who think lockdowns are an outrage. They're the people who refuse to do what's necessary in an emergency, because up until now they've never had to. It's a kind of 'spoiled brat' rebellion. It also explains why it's been easier to suppress COVID in highly compliant populaces (ie, the Eastern Hemisphere). People on this side of the world are more accustomed to toeing lines, and recognise it's for the greater good.
     
  20. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The world didn't need to shut down over this one either. It decided to do that. Yes is not like the others. It is more contagious.

    Not only an outrage but un-American and a failure to control the virus. Forcing people to close their businesses was definitely not for the greater good.
     
  21. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Depends on your perspective. It is more dangerous to society as a whole but represents the same danger to you and me.
     
  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Thing is people adapt. Aussies can’t go overseas so they hit the road here

    upload_2021-9-15_20-41-23.jpeg
    Course it might have caused a bit of a traffic jam
     
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  23. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Wow! that is amazing. What is the destination for this caravan? It must be special.
     
  24. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Sallyally likes this.
  25. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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