Man facing charges after escaping quarantine hotel in New Zealand

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by sec, Sep 3, 2021.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Seems they had a ball!
    upload_2021-9-15_21-29-25.jpeg
     
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  2. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) You think the world just got together one day and decided to do this for the LOLs? Mess with our heads for fun? All those dramatically different and conflicting Govts and cultures, just got together over a cheeseburger and shook on it? With respect, the idea that this was deliberate - as per the example above - is about the whackiest conspiracy theory to ever have existed. The world responded the way it did because this particular virus gave us no other choice. Not one Govt on the planet completely ignored it as just another flu. Even to think all this has been accidental, or a (global) mistake, is a very deep level of denial.

    2) The virus doesn't know or care about America, or your businesses. You either do what you have to do to adapt and survive, or you perish. There isn't a third option - apart from fatal denial. As for failure to control the virus, you'd best ask America (and Europe) why they chose that route. The New Zealand Govt chose to protect their citizens, their citizens' freedoms, and their citizens' businesses - but stamping the virus out hard and fast.
     
  3. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    You're not following. A highly contagious disease which is not immediately fatal, is exactly the kind which causes pandemics. Especially when it's capable of making a significant percentage quite sick .. with many needing healthcare and/or hospitalisation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  4. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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  5. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Look further down the pics - this is outside Barcaldine in Queensland - take it from me that road takes road trains - there is plenty of room
     

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  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You are not following. It has a low death rate. The problem is not the death rate. It is the volume of infections because of increased contagion. We are not seeing declines in the volume of infections. What we are doing isn't working.
     
  7. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Time to wake up. We are failing at controlling the virus. Closing businesses does nothing at all to control the virus. Hence it is illogical and harmful. Yes, the entire world is wrong. It is a victim of looking to the past to find answers for a new, likely weaponized virus. My denial that closing businesses made any sense is very deep indeed.

    Hello. The virus isn't being stamped out and will not be stamped out. There isn't the slightest bit of evidence that such a thing will happen. New Zealand has a government that is more authoritarian than ours. It is good that New Zealand's isolation has provided a low level of infection, but what is going on in the rest of the world doesn't suggest that authoritarianism is the answer.
     
  8. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    No, I get it. The infections are not going to slow down unless they're actively suppressed (as per New Zealand, and most of Australia). What the vaccines do is dramatically reduce the severity of the illness, meaning that most vaccinated people of ordinarily reasonable health will not need significant (if any) health care.

    So yes, what we are doing is working as well as anything could with the current knowledge and science available. We suppress the rate of infections by hard lockdowns, and we vaccinate. The combination of the two is the adaptation necessary.
     
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  9. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    There is only one measure available to us at this point - how much Delta is in your country. New Zealand (and Taiwan, and a few other places) are winning that race, by a huge margin. The virus doesn't care about our comfort, our freedoms, our businesses, or anything else. There are only two things it 'cares' about - warm bodies to invade, and unvaccinated warm bodies which which allow it to reproduce.

    In the end, no one is happy about COVID, and we're even less happy about what we have to do about it - but refusing to do anything because we're so offended by the insult to our freedoms (and businesses, etc), is as stupid and pointless as refusing to run for higher ground as floodwaters roll towards you. It won't save anything or anyone. And the degree of your anger and frustration doesn't change a thing. You can't hold the flood back with your anger, but you CAN adapt to a new landscape and regain some of the things lost in the process.
     
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  10. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Low death rate or not if enough people are infected you will see deaths and again come back to viral load. If you get exposed to a couple of outlier viruses you body has a chance vaccinated or not. If however you get a prolonged blast of millions upon millions of viral particles you immune system vaccinated or not will struggle BUT if your immune system has already dealt with this virus before then that initial struggle is short lived
     
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  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we all know that some small percentage of infected people die. No need to make it an emotion argument. It is fact. That percentage has declined thanks to the vaccines. No question about that. But the infection rate when delta arrived was greater than the infection rate when the vaccines arrived. Delta has made the infection rate worse and the vaccines have lowered the death rate. I'm not arguing against vaccines. I support them. My point is that what we are doing is ineffective.

    It is senseless to force people to be involved in methods that aren't working. By all means advise people and recommend whatever methods you like. There is no defense for forcing people to do what isn't working. I will continue to support the therapeutic benefits of the vaccines. It is good that you support them as well. But I ask that you not support the government authoritarianism. That is not good.
     
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Viruses can't care. They can only move through the air from exhalation. It is good that a few countries have been spared the existence of a lot of the virus for whatever reason. But the rest of the world has shown you that the mitigation strategies don't work. It couldn't be more clear.

    I'm not the least bit angry. I am just reporting what is obvious to me and should be obvious to everyone. If the authoritarianism worked I would consider your argument to be valid. But it doesn't. Here in the U.S. the infection rate was greater when delta arrived than when the vaccines arrived. The vaccines are providing some therapeutic benefits. That is very good. But they haven't reduced the infection rate. The virus is in charge. Understand that I support the vaccines. I do not support the authoritarianism because it simply doesn't work. These nations that are separated by ocean from the rest of the world should look harder at why they have less virus. That might improve a more objective look at the mandates.
     
  14. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the vaccines are providing a therapeutic benefit and are important for that reason. I fully support vaccination. The other mitigation strategies have not worked in the U.S. There is no reason to think that they would be effective in New Zealand. After all we are all members of the same species. By all means vaccinate. But I would suggest stopping the government mandates. It is good that you have less virus. It isn't because of government mandates.
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) The US never tried the mitigation strategies. You had (at best) a token lockdown.

    2) They are effective in New Zealand, and most of Australia, and crowded non-island states like Taiwan. They're incredibly effective.

    3) Of course it was the Govt mandates. We had the same invasion of the virus as you guys back at the beginning, but we didn't let it take hold. We shut everything down, closed the borders, and wiped it out of existence for almost a year. While you were still living with your masks and other impositions, we were free and life was back to normal. Delta has arrived now, but we're doing way better with it than nations who don't practice suppression. Our numbers have now stabilised and in some areas decreasing. That's because we fight it, rather than let it have it's way with us. We can't afford to throw the nation to the dogs, we're too small and don't have the resources to deal with the fallout of complete surrender.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  16. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    On the contrary, it's shown us that doing nothing, does nothing.

    And we have not been 'spared', we've simply fought harder. What you're seeing is a result of a different approach .. not luck.
     
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The opposite of what you say is obvious. You are entitled to an opinion. And Taiwan is an island.
     

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