Migrants clash with Greek police at border after Turkey opens floodgates

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Thedimon, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    14,267
    Likes Received:
    4,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Does that apply to both of us?

    You call paraphrasing Kissinger "facts instead of propaganda"? He was as dishonest as the day is long.

    More official American "facts instead of propaganda", huh, from the same people who claim the U.S. never invaded Vietnam, Laos, or Cambodia. By the way, Kissinger had lots of personal reasons to falsify his assessments.
     
  2. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2018
    Messages:
    7,695
    Likes Received:
    2,310
    Trophy Points:
    113
    South Vietnam and Thailand are allies of the US.
    I wasn't aware American troops were in North Vietnam,
    but certainly during that time the Left was adamant there
    were no North Vietnamese troops in Cambodia, Thailand,
    Laos and especially South Vietnam. They told this lie to
    my face, many times.
    And let's not forget this war was a proxy war with Maoist
    China (where millions were dying under Communism) and
    the Soviet Union (land of the Gulags.)
     
  3. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,720
    Likes Received:
    2,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    we will never know, they are pointless assertions. icould quite easily argue yes to everyone but its irrelevant now. it also goes way beyond the colonization of south africa and back into the trans atlantic slave so-called trade to the crusades to the european conquest of Egypt. SA was just one small step in whites obsession with total control of the globe.
     
  4. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,720
    Likes Received:
    2,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The ancient greeks were turkish.
     
  5. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    5,336
    Likes Received:
    5,925
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hardly. We can look at all sorts of evidence that can be used to make predictions. We do that as it can inform us about past, present and future events and advisable future action. For instance, I've read that former African colonies are better off than those areas never colonized. Could be due to confounding factors as, maybe some areas were colonized BECAUSE they were attractive and better off.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
  6. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,720
    Likes Received:
    2,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    yes and we can look at counter "evidence" and speculation and go round in circles as we will never know if South Africa would have been better off without the colonization of whites. For sure, it would have been way better for blacks had the dutch and british not massacred their way to governance but its irrelevant now in the bigger picture. we will never agree because whites will never, ever admit to any wrongdoing, ever.
     
  7. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    5,336
    Likes Received:
    5,925
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nor, if they think they've improved things, should they do so. It is worth looking to things such as the state of former colonies and those that never were colonies and make speculations to help guide us in future actions. We will never know within a metaphysical certainty. That's no reason to stick one's head in the sand to avoid unpleasant or politically un desired reality. We can make reasonable inferences.
     
  8. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,720
    Likes Received:
    2,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    they were all colonized, thus your point is moot concerning africa. no reasonable inference here.
     
  9. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,720
    Likes Received:
    2,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    fastest growing economy in africa is the one that resisted colonization the most.
     
  10. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    37,994
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    That's funny!
     
  11. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    5,336
    Likes Received:
    5,925
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I cannot call that a reasoned response. I cannot even figure out what you are trying to write.
    And which one is that? What is the baseline? Are there confounding factors? Example: Obama governed a nation with an upward economic trajectory. Seems he was doing a great job. But he took office after the Democratic party and its policies of "equal opportunity lending banks" had ravaged the US economy. There was little room to go but up. My guess is whatever nation it is of which you are writing, the situation is pretty much the same.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
    Injeun likes this.
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Europeans wanted to convert native Americans to the Christian religion, when that failed, all hell broke loose

    convert or kill seems to be common among the Abrahamic religions
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
    Injeun likes this.
  13. Mrs. b.

    Mrs. b. Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    758
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Female
    upload_2020-4-9_7-22-39.gif
     
    Jeannette likes this.
  14. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2012
    Messages:
    12,832
    Likes Received:
    5,961
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I've heard that caricature posited. But I suspect the reality was an escalation of hostilities on both sides, resulting in either victor or vanquished. Even the repeated claims that Americans gave small pox infected blankets to the natives so as to conquer the country isn't true. In fact the only recorded reference was in a letter from a commander of a British fort during the French/Indian war. The Fort was under siege by French allied natives, and suffering from within with small pox. In the letter the commander mentions a plot by a trader in the fort, to give infected blankets to the natives during negotiations. Turns out that one blanket and one handkerchief from the infirmary was exchanged. According to the commander, he doubted the efficacy because the pox had already gone thru the tribes, and the natives were most likely the ones from whom the fort contracted the disease in the first place. There was also no mention in any correspondence of the outcome. So that's it. One letter of one instance at a single British fort when the British and French were vying for control of the entire territory.
     
    Jeannette likes this.
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    if there is a recorded instance, you know there was many non-recorded instances
     
    Injeun likes this.
  16. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2012
    Messages:
    12,832
    Likes Received:
    5,961
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Possibly. But it also stands to reason that natives with centuries of warfare between tribes, were no strangers to war, trickery, strategy, underhandedness, cunning, cruelty and atrocity themselves. We all come from the same God, and are familiar with and subject to, by choice, the same wicked impulses.
     
  17. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    37,994
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    The Europeans won because they were more advanced and had better arms. Are you trying to say that if they hadn't colonized, the black tribes would have lived peacefully with one another? I don't think so. Weren't the black slave captives sold as slaves?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
  18. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,720
    Likes Received:
    2,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    if you dont know which one im talking about then quite frankly, this little off topic discussion can end right here, since your knowledge of African history appears woeful.
     
  19. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,720
    Likes Received:
    2,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    you can laugh all you like..
     
  20. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    37,994
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    The Indians had no immunity to smallpox, and I read recently that epidemics killed off most of them. Frankly I thought it was the measles, because I know it dessemated the population in Hawaii. One colonist wrote that only the mixed breeds were able to survive the measles. There were also 2 major cholera epidemics in the 19th century that killed off many of the Comanches - which is understandable since the water was polluted by the buffaloes. The sickness was probably brought in by the Spaniards.

    Anyway I don't see how anyone could have sympathy for tribes like the Comanches, after I read about the tortures they inflicted on whites, other Indians and even children. The bad thing is that in order to free the lands from the Comanches, they had to take away their food supply, so they killed tens of thousands of buffalos.
     
  21. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,720
    Likes Received:
    2,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your knowledge of African history appears very fundamental, perhaps its best you stick the the topic.

    The europeans won because they were more barbaric, brutal and obsessed with committing genocide and atrocities ACROSS THE GLOBE. What or who could stop such bloody mindedness?
     
  22. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    14,267
    Likes Received:
    4,465
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Bull crappy. Europeans were not interested in any of that. They wanted land and natural resources of Africa. If they couldn't procure it by peaceful means they took it by force. Genocide and atrocities had nothing to do with their "goals" other than a means to achieve them.
     
  23. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    37,994
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I didn't know if you were joking or if you really didn't know. I didn't want to insult you either way.

    Let me give you some history because we really don't learn much of it in the US other than our own. About 3 thousand plus years ago, the Greek tribes colonized Greece, Anatolia which is present day Turkey, the Black Sea coast, parts of the Middle East, half of Italy, and parts of France and Spain.

    When the Greek city states were taken over by Rome, all of the areas in the East became the Eastern Roman Empire, and since they spoke Greek rather than Latin, the western historians began calling it the Byzantine Empire.

    The Turkish tribes began moving into the Byzantine lands about one thousand years ago. In 1453 they conquered Constantinople the capital of the Byzantine Empire. The Ottoman Turks kept advancing into Europe, until their navy was defeated by the Knights of Malta and their army outside of Vienna..

    About 1832 the Greeks in the Peloponnesus began to revolt again Turkish rule. Because the Europeans consider Greece the foundation of European civilization, Lord Byron and the nobility of Europe began helping the Greeks. This was the beginning of the end for the Ottoman Empire. Soon other areas and countries gained their independence. The Ottoman Empire collapsed completely after WWI when Germany, who they had allied themselves with, lost the war.

    Ataturk began ethnically cleansing the Christian populations and taking back Anatolia. He's the one who founded the Turkish Republic.
     
  24. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    37,994
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    You didn't answer my question. I asked if the black tribes would have lived peacefully with one another if the whites did not go there?

    I have another question. Do you think the blacks have it better off in Zimbabwe today than they did when it was Rhodesia?

    Anyway I'm not blaming the blacks for what happened to Rhodesia and what going on in S. Africa. I blame Britain and the propaganda and pressure it imposed on their governments. They could have helped both groups reach an equitable solution where neither the whites nor the blacks would have suffered, but instead they destroyed them for their own political expediency.
     
  25. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    16,720
    Likes Received:
    2,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    now that really is funny
     

Share This Page