More evidence hydroxychloroquine works

Used by whom without any harm? A quack who isn't even a doctor? How do you know if there was no harm? Inhalation of this stuff can actually CAUSE lung damage. Here:

https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1164/ajrccm-conference.2015.191.1_MeetingAbstracts.A1537

Come again, no harm?

There's always a snake oil "doctor" who peddles worthless miracle treatments to separate gullible people from their money. What you are quoting is not medical sciences.

LOL, people are so desperate to find a way to justify what Trump said, that another poster here posted a study done in 1995 in rabbits, calling it "ongoing research" that supposedly justifies Trump's suggestion for humans. Rabbits. 1995. I kid you not.

 

OH. MY. GOD.

Come on, Joseph, are you really believing in this quackery? You may have missed the fine print:

"DISCLAIMER: Our readers offer information and opinions on Earth Clinic, not as a substitute for professional medical prevention, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your physician, pharmacist, or health care provider before taking any home remedies or supplements or following any treatment suggested by anyone on this site. Only your health care provider, personal physician, or pharmacist can provide you with advice on what is safe and effective for your unique needs or diagnose your particular medical history."

I rest my case.

 

I'm focusing here on your previous charges that hydrox is fundamentally dangerous and that just isn't so. If someone wants to take it thinking that it could help prevent covid infection and they do so with a doctor's consent, what's the harm?
I realize you firmly believe its of no use but I fail to understand your anger at those who think it may be effective. Live and let live I say.

 

There's no drug or therapy without some risk and this procedure has been used by many for decades with a minimum of bad results.It's not inherently dangerous.
Not sure why you are harping on a study using animals. Thats kind of SOP in beginning drug trials isnt it?
As for Trump his opinion on this means nothing to me but those that hate him our focused on it like a laser which makes me take everything they say about the drug with a grain of salt.

 

Not sure what you're resting your case on but okay.
Lawyers have to insert such disclaimers into most everything nowadays.

 

I sure do.

That is why you should have taken my friendly advice and Googled "H2O2 lung disease" before replying.

"A recent study, published in the Journal of Hospital Infection, shows that even just 0.5 percent hydrogen peroxide could kill human coronaviruses, such as those that caused SARS and MERS. The findings backed a 2009 research that found inhaling vaporized hydrogen peroxide could lead to 99 percent inactivation of virus activities."
MEDICAL DAILY, Covid-19, Hydrogen Peroxide As Treatment For Coronavirus Infection: Does It Work?, By Darwin Malicdem , Apr 10, 2020.
https://www.medicaldaily.com/hydrogen-peroxide-treatment-coronavirus-infection-does-work-451710

 

Fake Science.
Read the Lancet and NEJM retractions for guidance.

 

In fact there have been many studies showing that HCQ is very effective.
The major attacks on its use are examples of serious deadly science fraud.
Both Lancet and NEJM were forced to retract and apologize for their attacks on HCQ.

"On May 27, I published an article in the American Journal of Epidemiology (AJE) entitled, "Early Outpatient Treatment of Symptomatic, High-Risk COVID-19 Patients that Should be Ramped-Up Immediately as Key to the Pandemic Crisis." That article, published in the world's leading epidemiology journal, analyzed five studies, demonstrating clear-cut and significant benefits to treated patients, plus other very large studies that showed the medication safety.

Physicians who have been using these medications in the face of widespread skepticism have been truly heroic. They have done what the science shows is best for their patients, often at great personal risk. I myself know of two doctors who have saved the lives of hundreds of patients with these medications, but are now fighting state medical boards to save their licenses and reputations. The cases against them are completely without scientific merit."
NEWSWEEK, The Key to Defeating COVID-19 Already Exists. We Need to Start Using It |
BY HARVEY A. RISCH, MD, PHD , PROFESSOR OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH
ON 7/23/20.
https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeat...exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535

 

Peroxide can burn tissue.

But, that has as much to do with science as witches brews.

 

That article deserves it's own thread.

 

I'm not a proponent of this, know next to nothing about it and don't care to spend any time on it. My only point was using substances that Trump openly wondered about is not entirely out of the realm of possibility as the TDS crowd suggests.

 

Exactly, physicians should have a discretion on these things. But many who prescribed HCQ now face medical boards in their states, risking their licenses and careers. Shouldn’t physicians decide what to treat their patients with?

HCQ doesn’t have a shortage problem. It’s widely used by patients with many chronic diseases and as COVID-19 treatment in many countries.

Yep, you delegate to authority. You still don’t understand, that when you get sick, your physician decides what to treat you with, not Fauci. Political left made it very risky for doctors to use this drug.

 

Trump ought to be a leader, not a nut.

Btw, your body makes and uses peroxide as part of your immune system.

A lot of people have a vitamin D deficiency, that adversely impacts the ability of your immune system to fight disease. My 2 cents is it couldn't hurt. One study found the critically ill Corona cases had low D levels. It hasn't been published yet.

 

Please do that if you have the time.

 

Trump the "nut" had our economy booming like never before until a pandemic hit and it's only because our economy was so strong when it hit that we are weathering the storm so well.

 

Anger? What anger? I care for this topic as a matter of public health. Please tell me where exactly you see angry statements issued by me (beyond the little loss of control I had when we first started interacting, which as you know I apologized for; I actually enjoy talking with you. Thanks. Oh wait, yes, it is true that at the time when Trump issued the infamous "you have nothing to lose, take it" it angered me as any attempt to deliver medical advice without a medical degree and license anger me, but ever since I softened down on him given that I feel pretty grateful for his Warp Speed vaccine initiative. But that's about it. Sometimes I get frustrated with the misinformation that goes around *because it contributes to the perpetuation of public health problems* and I do my best to clarify but I wouldn't call it anger. Cheers.

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Josephwalker, I thought of you when I saw this today. Don't shoot the messenger, it's CNN, it's the WHO, but since a huge surge in cases is now being seen in Sub-Saharian Africa, and given that the milder epidemic there lead you to believe that HCQ had a role to play, does this change your view?

This kind of video can't be embedded so you'll have to go to the link, first.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/20...O0oXw7Dhz+eMv6sWJW3UEL23w&bt_ts=1596104560599

 

How many live chickens should I sacrifice to guarantee hydroxychloroquine works?

Did Herman Cain run out of chickens after attending Trump rally and getting infected by the howling micro-mob?

 

Oh, that *is* interesting. Thank you! OK, in this case then I agree with you. But the paper that was linked to before, wasn't in any infectious disease. Now that you added more info, it seems like you may have a point. Cheers.

 

I'm well aware of the Lancet and NEJM retraction of the papers that originated from the rogue Surgisphere group, and I've actually used this as an example of fraud and misinformation in my previous posts here (so it's demonstrable that I was already aware of these - who isn't, if the person is up to date to what is going on?). It's despicable. It's a great disservice to all aspects of this fight against the coronavirus. I was greatly upset when I first learned of it. It's fortunate however that the ruse was discovered very fast and the papers were recalled. I can only imagine that this has originated from one of two possible agendas - either to discredit Trump, or to discredit a medication that is cheap, in favor of some more lucrative competitor. I think this merits an investigation to see who paid Surgisphere for the fakery. It's truly a disgrace.

But I've also used this analogy: if some people rob a bank in South Dakota, you don't tell a Florida resident who hasn't ever been to South Dakota and has nothing to do with the SD robbers, "this must certainly mean that you're a bank robber too." Don't mix up medical journals with newspapers, magazines, and websites who often have a journalistic agenda tainted by politics. Medical journals are way more neutral than that. They are the messengers. Don't shoot the messengers. They do peer review to try and make sure the science is sound but peer reviewers are humans and make mistakes too and in this case they did. But the journals don't author the studies. The fact that Surgisphere fraudulently managed to place papers in the Lancet and the NEJM doesn't mean that ALL papers in these and other medical journals, researched and written by completely different people with no relationship whatsoever to Surgisphere, are also fake and fraudulent.

I understand that the temptation to be highly suspicious from now on is in many people's minds. I find it understandable. But this is not the same kind of thing that has fostered the debates in climate science. Randomized clinical trials are a lot more straightforward than climatology models. You randomize two groups of matched people, you give to one group an active treatment and to another one a placebo, and you run outcome measurements. It's not really controversial. The fake Surgisphere studies were database analyses, and it turns out that the database data were fake. But that's not the same way an RCT proceeds. Anyway, like I said, I understand your suspicions, but I do believe that the studies I've been quoting are not fake and not biased, for various reasons; most notably, affiliations, funding, and methodology.

 

Then why don't these 3 studies reflect your claim that HCQ helps? Seems to me if it reduced inflammation, lives would be saved,
but that is not what these studies show, and if it were true, I mean, really true, you'd think the studies would reflect it, no?
Read this article and see if it doesn't affect your opinion.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...roxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

 

Sigh.

He was handed a good economy.

He then did a big tax cut to stimulate it, now that we actually need to run big deficits, that overhang isn't helping.

Even worse, if we had done the sorts of things other countries did, we could have reduced the number of infections 80-90%. We could be reopening safely just like Europe. Whether he's crazy, incompetent or both; that's a failure of biblical proportions.

 

Ten years ago, my mouth was a very painful war zone, my teeth, gums/ ached, yet I couldn't pin point the pain, and my gums bled every time I brushed my teeth.

When I was a kid, my mom used to apply hydrogen peroxide to a cut, if I got scraped, riding a bike, and what not. I looked on the bottle of peroxide ( 3% ) I had in my first aid cabinet, and it said it could be used as a mouth wash. So, I got an idea, when I applied toothpasted to my toothbrush, I used spray bottled filled with Hydrogen Peroxide, and saturated the brush, then brushed my teeth for a solid 2 minutes.

In 2 days, the pain vanished and the bleeding stopped, never to return in 10 years. Every so often, I get lazy and don't brush my teeth for 2 days ( I know, bad idea ) and the pain returns.

It's happened to me enough times that I know, without equivocation, the value of using hydrogen peroxide on my toothbrush. No one can tell me my results are anecdotal and not proof it doesn't work. It frickin' works.

I've heard someone saying it causes the skin on the gums to flake off, a bit, but I have not experienced it.

The stuff works, and so I wondered if it would work for Covid. There are doctors who do Hydrogen Peroxide drips, intravenuosly, with specific solutions for fungal diseases ( like Candida ) and it works great. ( don't swallow, though it will cause nausea )

So, I'm on board with this idea, and peroxide CHEAP. If you let peroxide sit out in the open, it turms to water. It's not toxic, but it will upset the tummy if you swallow it, the 'gut flora' its' a little crazy. It kills anaerobic germs, but araerobic germs live. The anaerobic germs are the ones that are responsible for decay. the aerobic germs are the good germs you dont' want to kill. this is why you shouldn't use listerine, it kills all germs, good and bad. Peroxide is water with one extra oxygen atom, so it oxygenates water ( 3 %, 99% is rocket fuel ).

 

I don't really have a view to change except that I'm skeptical of the surge of studies that suddenly appeared the minute Trump touted hydrox. Then there's the one that got caught using fake data so all of them become tainted by that.
As for South Africa and a covid surge I'd need to know more about that. For instance what anti malarial drugs do they predominantly use? Hydrox is one of many and as I research this I find different countries use different drugs. This would be a good study though. Someone should dig into which countries use which malaria drugs and see if the hydrox countries have better numbers than the others.
We are all winging it with this pandemic. Politicians, doctors, scientists and laymen are doing the best they can and "facts" seem to change daily.
Speaking of SA though I have a relative that's been stranded there on his boat since this began. He was sailing around the world but SA won't let him leave and this new surge is not good news for him. Worst part he says is you can't buy alcohol. LOL

 

Trumps economy is why we are weathering this financial storm as well as we are. Live with it.

 

Sigh all you want it was Trumps economy and it was booming. The market’s weathering the storm and housing prices are on the rise. This is directly attributable to the very strong pre pandemic economy.