Mueller report: It doesn't tell us how it knows some things.

Discussion in 'United States' started by chris155au, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    They know that in the way any investigation is conducted. They interview witnesses and categorize testimony. There were witnesses aboard Air Force One returning from the G20 summit who were there when Trump dictated that 'revised' letter that Don Jr. should use. He instead said they met to discuss adoptions of Russian children. When reporters questioned whether Trump was involved in writing his son’s statement, his personal lawyer repeatedly denied he played any such role.

    This is exactly HOW Mueller knew this;

    July 8, 2017, White House aide Hope Hicks showed Trump a draft statement about the Trump Tower meeting that Donald Trump Jr. was set to give to the Times. The draft began by noting that Trump Jr. had been promised “information helpful to the campaign.” Trump told Hicks not to use the statement and instead say only that Trump Jr. took a brief meeting in which they discussed Russian adoption. Trump Jr. then told Hicks he wanted to add the word “primarily” before “discussed.” “If I don’t have it in there it appears as though I’m lying later when they inevitably leak something,” he texted Hicks. She texted back that the “boss man worried it invites a lot of questions,” but the final statement included “primarily.” The next day, after learning that the Times would publish a follow-up story about the emails setting up the meeting, Trump Jr. posted them on Twitter himself and issued a new statement acknowledging that he had been promised dirt on Clinton.

    Mueller’s sources: Testimony from Hicks, Trump legal team spokesman Mark Corallo, White House communicators adviser Josh Raffel, among others; and text messages.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
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  2. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    Well 'shucks', it certainly was not a waste of time and money.
    Paul Manafort - In prison right now serving time
    Michael Cohen - pleaded guilty. Turning himself in to prison tomorrow for 3 years.
    Michael Flynn - pleaded guilty
    George Papadopoulos - pleaded guilty, sentenced, served prison time
    Rick gates - pleaded guilty
    Alex Van der Zwaan - pleaded guilty, sentenced
    Richard Pinedo - pleaded guilty
    Konstantin Kilmnik -indicted
    Roger Stone - indicted
    13 Russian Nationals - indicted
    12 Russian Military Officers - indicted
    Alex van der Zwann, convicted and sentenced to 30 days, then deported out of the U.S. and told not to come back. Michael Flynn, pleaded guilty, still cooperating but soon to be sentenced. Rick Gates, still cooperating but pleaded guilty to conspiracy, to be sentenced.
    Richard Pinedo, pleaded guilty, convicted and serving six months in prison.

    Fact: Trump pursued a business deal with Russia during the campaign
    Mueller’s sources: Testimony from Cohen, Sater and I.C. Expert chairman Andrei Rozov; the letter of intent; and emails and text messages about the project.

    Fact: The Trump campaign met with Russians in Trump Tower
    Mueller’s sources: Testimony from Goldstone, Veselnitskaya, Manafort, deputy campaign chairman Rick Gates, Cohen, Kushner and Trump Jr., among others; written responses from Trump to Mueller questions; Manafort’s meeting notes; and emails and call records.

    Fact: Trump wrote the misleading statement about the Trump Tower meeting
    Mueller’s sources: Testimony from Hicks, Trump legal team spokesman Mark Corallo, White House communicators adviser Josh Raffel, among others; and text messages.

    Fact: It was Trump’s decision to fire Comey, not Rosenstein
    Mueller’s sources:
    Interviews with Bannon, Miller, McGahn, Priebus, and Rosenstein, among others; drafts of the termination letter and the president’s daily diary.

    Fact: Trump tried to fire Mueller twice
    Mueller’s sources: Interviews with McGahn and people he talked with at the time, as well as phone records and the president’s daily diary.
     
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  3. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You know those hundreds of interviews and tens of thousands of documents that the team of professional investigators had to process, and verify thru comparisons and corroboration in various formats? That's how they came to know that.
     
  4. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    He also makes specific references to sources during the course of the report.
     
  5. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    He doesn’t make reference to any source on the asserted claim Russia perceived Trump’s election would be advantageous, its just stated as a known fact.

    Another big missing source is for the conclusion Russians hacked the DNC’s server, his team never even saw that server and conducted no forensic analysis of it, how could they know it was hacked by Russians?
     
  6. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    I guess he made it all up.

    The report cites multiple sources. Didn't you read it?

    It starts at Volume, page 39. It specifically cites to sources. Go read it.
     
  7. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Umm, no.

    Don't you ever get tired of being painfully wrong?

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    On the DNC hack source, Mueller relied on “CrowdStrike”, if you don’t see a problem with that you need to google this independent contractor (there’s a lot online about them).
     
  9. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    No. He relied upon an indictment in a related case.

    But you could've looked that up for yourself. I even gave you the page to start reading about it, ferfucksake!
     
  10. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    Same indictment also listed its accusations without proof(that after all, is what an indictment is. It's not an opening argument by the prosecution). This is why McCarthy was heavily critical of it being a criminal investigation to begin with, when clearly all you had was a counterintelligence investigation.

    They're two different realms and should be treated differently. That's why Rosenstein's holding the barf bag right now.
     
  11. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    I guess he made it all up! Good catch!

    This is why we need to source material and an unredacted report. You make the assumption that if you haven't seen it, it doesn't exist.

    Tell Barr to release all source material as well as a completely unredacted report.
     
  12. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    It's the assumption we make under the court of law, that the DOJ under Rosenstein foolishly applied it under. I'm holding him to the legal standards of the court. If you want to say a hacking crime happened, you make a charge to that effect argued in a court of law.

    An indictment, is just an indictment. So yes, we'll never know the basis of the proof unless it's all declassified and yes, I'm for that.
     
  13. Sahba*

    Sahba* Well-Known Member

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    Then there is the timeline of Papadopoulos ... via Misfud (Mueller might want to take a 'rain check') on that request by Nadler to testify infront of the House JC; & I doubt that he'll accept Grahm's invite to clarify 'that phone call' twixt himself & AG Barr, for the Sen JC.



     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  14. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    On the matter of Russian meddling Mueller very well may have made it all up, there’s little to substantiate this claim.

    Specifically on the hacking claim, absent any forensics by Mueller’s investigators on the DNC’s server, there simply is no evidence. Relying on CrowdStrike’s conclusion would certainly be challenged given their status as an independent contractor working for the DNC (plus their track record on this sort of thing).

    Russia’s delivery of hacked material to Wikileaks is premised on the unsupported attribution to them of the hacking, I’ve seen nothing to substantiate this delivery claim, Assange denies it too.

    Then there’s the effectiveness and impact of evident Russian disinformation on social media, 13 Russians spending $100k over the course of the entire campaign is frankly insignificant, particularly when compared to what Trump and Hillary spent. From what has been reported the Russians promoted disinformation for and against both Trump and Hillary as well as the central issues in the campaign.
     
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  15. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    They got a disk image of the server.

    DNC hack:

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/russia-indictment-20-what-make-muellers-hacking-indictment


    Social media.
    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4380480-Mueller-Russia-Indictment.html

    Putin told us he favored Trump when they met in Helsinki.

    They are good. :)
     
  16. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Couldn’t find reference to that “disk image” of the DNC server, please link a quote.
     
  17. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    And yet they didn't reference any interview or document.
     
  18. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    The term "grand jury testimony" doesn't appear on Google. I don't understand how a jury testifies.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  19. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Alright, and what does that have to do with the allegation that Trump deleted a line from Trump Jr's press statement?

    Indictment in the Mueller report?
     
  20. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    How do we know this?

    So what?

    What is the above from?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  21. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    When cyber investigators respond to an incident, they capture that evidence in a process called “imaging.” They make an exact byte-for-byte copy of the hard drives. They do the same for the machine’s memory, capturing evidence that would otherwise be lost at the next reboot, and they monitor and store the traffic passing through the victim’s network. This has been standard procedure in computer intrusion investigations for decades. The images, not the computer’s hardware, provide the evidence.

    Both the DNC and the security firm Crowdstrike, hired to respond to the breach, have said repeatedly over the years that they gave the FBI a copy of all the DNC images back in 2016. The DNC reiterated that Monday in a statement to the Daily Beast.

    “The FBI was given images of servers, forensic copies, as well as a host of other forensic information we collected from our systems,” said Adrienne Watson, the DNC’s deputy communications director. “We were in close contact and worked cooperatively with the FBI and were always responsive to their requests. Any suggestion that they were denied access to what they wanted for their investigation is completely incorrect.”

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-missing-dnc-server-is-neither-missing-nor-a-server

    Trump’s “DNC didn’t give the server to the FBI” conspiracy theory makes no sense.

    First off, CrowdStrike, the company the DNC brought in to initially investigate and remediate the hack, actually shared images of the DNC servers with the FBI. For the purposes of an investigation of this type, images are much more useful than handing over metal and hardware, because they are bit-by-bit copies of a crime scene taken while the crime was going on. Live hard drive and memory snapshots of blinking, powered-on machines in a network reveal significantly more forensic data than some powered-off server removed from a network. It’s the difference between watching a house over time, carefully noting down who comes and goes and when and how, versus handing over a key to a lonely boarded-up building. By physically handing over a server to the FBI as Trump suggested, the DNC would in fact have destroyed evidence. (Besides, there wasn’t just one server, but 140.)

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/07/17/dnc-server-hack-russia-trump-2016-219017
     
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  22. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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  23. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Nothing. Because that wasn't your question.
     
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  24. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post. It debunks the trumpsters' conspiracy theory about "Mueller not even looking" at the DNC server.

    So, c'mon, Trumpsters--quit making **** up at least about that issue. :roll:
     
  25. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    It's right in this thread. TWICE! Take the time to read a thread. Also, take the time to look at the Mueller Report for yourself!
     

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