Muslim association buys Italian church to transform it into second mosque of Bergamo

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by MGB ROADSTER, Oct 28, 2018.

  1. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Well-Known Member

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    A church in the Italian city of Bergamo will be transformed into a mosque, newspaper Il Giornale reports.
    After the Muslim Association of Bergamo won an auction, it became the owner of a former hospital chapel.
    For about three years the church housed the religious services of the Romanian Orthodox community, which has more than 2,000 believers.
    The auction was held yesterday and the Muslim Association won it thanks to a bid that was eight per cent higher than the starting price of 418,700 euros.
    It will take 90 days to finish the transfer and complete the process, the Italian newspaper writes.
    Idir Ouchickh, president of the Islamic association, explained that the intention is to keep the site’s destination as a place of worship.
    If built, the ex-Riuniti mosque will be the second in Bergamo, after the one in Via Cenisio, officially recognised since 2013.
    The League party of Interior Minister Salvini is not amused and announced that they will test the procedure.
    “We will go and check the proceedings of the auction to see if historical constraints have been imposed and if there are reasons to cancel the race itself”, declared the representatives of the Bergamo League, the deputies Daniele Belotti and Alberto Ribolli.

    http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/crona...-chiesa-bergamo-diventer-moschea-1592666.html

    The church housed the religious services of the Romanian Orthodox community, which has more than 2,000 believers.
     
  2. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They better remove anything left in the church.
    As long they don't destroy the building.
     
  3. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Probably five on which attended and supported the chuch.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2018/05/29/religious-practice-and-belief/
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  4. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    What is the difference between 'worship' and 'prayer'?

    Matthew 21:13 "And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

    4335. proseuché
    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
    earnest prayer.
    From proseuchomai; prayer (worship); by implication, an oratory (chapel) -- X pray earnestly, prayer.

    see GREEK proseuchomai



    James 5:16 "Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
     
  5. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Fascists block sale:


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/italys-far-right-league-blocks-13496617


    "I would never put a Church on sale and I am amazed that the hospital management did not realise what a sensitive issue this is," Lombardy President Attilio Fontana, a League politician, wrote on Twitter.

    "However, we will exercise our right of first refusal (for the sale) and there will be no space for any appeal," he added.

    His decision means the region must now buy the property.


    League leader Matteo Salvini warned earlier this year that Italian culture and society risked being eradicated by Islam.




     
  6. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's the right of catholic to get their religion being respected.
     
  7. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Any more so than it's the right of Muslims to have their religion being respected? Is there such a concept of respect by which Catholicism having a church is more respectful than Islam having a Mosque? A capitalist would also argue that the fact that the Mosque won the auction means that the Mosque was expecting to deliver more benefit to their attendees than any Christian bidder did.
     
    kiwimac, RiaRaeb, Mr_Truth and 2 others like this.
  8. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By the way muslims have the right to have a mosque, but should they desecrate a church for that ? And Italians have the right to not be happy to have mosques on their ground.
     
  9. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Presumably, the chapel would have been desacralised. I don't know about Italy, but I understand that is standard for churches that are sold. Should a church retain the right to uphold the sacrlisation of a church if it is no longer their property?

    Everyone has the right to be happy or unhappy as they please. I don't think the concept of rights even addresses things like emotions. The question is whether the state should block a purchase or should have the right to block a purchase. Not whether they actually have it.

    Well, in my opinion, the real question is whether the animosity this breeds between Muslims and Christians has a worse impact on the future than the establishment of a Mosque, and how that effect interacts (or should interact) with a functioning state.
     
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  10. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Attilio Fontana is a fascist and member of the Northern League (Liga Nord) which is a group that hates immigrants - he has been accused of racism many times in the past - this action is not a Catholic movement but a racist amd exclusionist one
     
  11. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    Italy seems to take a strange take on freedom of religion, which IS in their constitution.

    "You have the right to practice whatever religion you want.....unless catholics disagree with it "
     
  12. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Well-Known Member

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    Islam is not a race.

    But play the race card anyways.
     
  13. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Well-Known Member

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    The Italian Catholics have a right to refuse a mosque,
    Just as much as.
    The Saudi Arabia muslims have a right to refuse a church.

    Of course the Italians probably won't kill anyone over it.
     
  14. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you read up on his claims about immigration infecting the white race as you obviously have no knowledge of the subject.
     
  15. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Well-Known Member

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    Obviously it doesn't exist or you would post it.
     
  16. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Italy is a parliamentary republic where people are free to practice their religion. Saudi Arabia gives no such freedom.
     
  17. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    I could easily make another $10,000 bet with you about it but you won't pay up when you lose.

    By the way, a note to you right wingers - I'm still waiting for the $70,000 you people owe for the bets you have lost against me.
     
  18. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Well-Known Member

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    You never made a bet with me, besides I would make it payable to the site.
     
  19. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    LOL. Excuses, excuses.
     
  20. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, funny thing that.

    Muslims have the "right" to build mosques in Western culture.

    Non-Muslims are forbidden to build churches in Islamic culture, or even practice their religion.

    God help you if a Christian drinks from a Muslims cup in Pakistan.

    In 50 years Europe will be a wasteland.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  21. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Well-Known Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but,,

    I don't recall you ever willing an argument with anyone.
     
  22. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Well-Known Member

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    I think the sh-t will hit the fan long before that.
     
  23. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is already a lot of animosity between muslims and christians and this story won't change anything. And I doubt that the catholics will be respected by muslims by acting as carpets. I checked, the city isn't in Sardinia, it could have been more problematic.
    I don't know what is this building, we have a lot of centuries old church in Europe, with a lot of sculptures, painting and pictures in it that can be hardly removed. Considering the stance of muslims on pictures and idols. It could be problematic to give a church to muslims.

    Fascism is delusionnal, it's basically hoping that a big magical strong man will solve all of your problems. Hating immigrants is unecessary even if you don't want to them. Italian saw what massive african or middle african immigration caused in France and UK, so yes, it's logical that a lot of Italians are against immigration.

    From what I understood by speaking with some Italian, at the opposite of some other western country like USA or UK, being italian isn't about citizenship and values, but there is something ethnic to that.
     
  24. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I think Christians should be able to build churches in Saudi Arabia as much as Muslims should be able to build Mosques in Italy, but in this case, the OP brought up the Italian case.
     
  25. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    My guess would be that unless the Muslims were interested in keeping the statues (and paid accordingly), they would be relocated or otherwise dealt with as a part of the desacralisation process. Otherwise, if the Christians wanted a say over how they were treated, they shouldn't have relinquished their right to decide what happens to the statues by selling them (I guess this is all subject to contract phrasings and local laws though).

    I am all for respecting religions, but I don't see why that should stretch to the point where one person/organisation gets to decide what happens to other people's possessions. And in this case, the Christians had the option of not selling the church, if that mattered more to them than the money they were paid.
     

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