Must believe in Biblical God to be a Jew?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Ronstar, Aug 25, 2015.

  1. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    7,611
    Likes Received:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    113
    lol @judaism101. try reading scripture and see if they fit the description in Deut.
     
  2. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    7,611
    Likes Received:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    113
    there is no genetics to prove either way
     
  3. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,645
    Likes Received:
    13,763
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not until after the Babylonian exile when Ezra was raising cain about Jews who married foreign wives.. Those Jewish men were instructed to divorce their foreign wives and dump the kids. Many wouldn't and so the diaspora began. Read the scriptures.
     
  4. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    89,666
    Likes Received:
    12,942
    Trophy Points:
    113
    there are certain haplotypes that folks in the Levant have more than other peoples.

    many Ashkanezi and Sephardic Jews possess these genes, even though their ancestors were away from the Middle East for at least 1,000 years.
     
  5. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    7,611
    Likes Received:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    113
    kinda jewish. wow, way to make someone feel insignificant. Hey, youre kinda alrightish i.e i dont like you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    they interbred with mongols.

    - - - Updated - - -

    there is still no genetics to prove anyone is a descendant of biblical Isreal
     
  6. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    89,666
    Likes Received:
    12,942
    Trophy Points:
    113
    no, but there are certain genes that are more common among the peoples of the Levant who are related the the ancient Judeans.
     
  7. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    7,611
    Likes Received:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    113
    circular argument, you havent and cant prove anyone in the levant is related to the biblical israelites, who incidentally were exiled, little detail there. lost tribes too, heard of that?
     
  8. MeshugeMikey

    MeshugeMikey New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Messages:
    899
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    the people of GOD who refuse to "believe" in God...could hardly be thought to be the People Of God
     
  9. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    89,666
    Likes Received:
    12,942
    Trophy Points:
    113
    err.....many of the ancient Judeans were not exiled, and stuck around for hundreds of years after the Bar Kochba revolt.

    its safe to assume that the native peoples of the area, such as the Samaritans, Assyrians, Copts, Kurds, Bedouins, Palestinians, are related to the ancient Judeans.
     
  10. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    7,611
    Likes Received:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    113
    sure, you can assume anything you like. im just saying youre wrong. its like assuming the native americans were saxons just because saxons aoccupy america now, unusually immature belief imo.
     
  11. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    89,666
    Likes Received:
    12,942
    Trophy Points:
    113
    based on what, am I wrong?

    because you believe the ancient Judeans were all black?

    lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  12. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    7,611
    Likes Received:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    113
    youve never been wrong before or something?
     
  13. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    89,666
    Likes Received:
    12,942
    Trophy Points:
    113
    lol.....so you think all the ancient Judeans were black huh?
     
  14. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,645
    Likes Received:
    13,763
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No they weren't all exiled... Many Palestinians are descended from Jewish farmers who stayed behind... and they in turn married Arabs, Turks, Greeks, Syrians, Crusaders etc.

    These Jewish farmers stayed behind and tended the Roman terraces and aqueducts and olive trees.... Some ultimately became Christians or later Muslims.
     
  15. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    89,666
    Likes Received:
    12,942
    Trophy Points:
    113
    many Jews were not exiled, stuck around Palestine for hundreds of years, and slowly migrated to neighboring lands.

    there have never been a time when there weren't thousands of Jews in Palestine.

    The Jews helped the Muslime fight the Crusaders, and were in charge of defending the city of Haifa.
     
  16. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    26,347
    Likes Received:
    172
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Agreed. That's pretty much my take on things.

    Given your statement above, I'm wondering why that would be a concern. Is there a need to identify?
     
  17. Spiritus Libertatis

    Spiritus Libertatis New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I devout Jew would believe in the stories his Holy book actually teaches. Belief in a Deist God implies that you don't believe the founding myths of your own religion, in which God was very active in shaping events.
     
  18. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    7,489
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Margot quote
    Yes. thanks. Though Genesis gives her the status of 'wife', in Abrahams genealogy in Chronicles as a concubine.
    This would seem to be the case. Abraham gives all he has to Isaac. He gives gifts to his concubines son's, and sends them away. They are not Jews.

    But then they never existed anyway.:smile:
     
  19. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Hammer and Behar have redefined an extended MHC haplotype as determined by a set of 12 markers and having as "background" haplogroup determining the most important lines J1E (46.1%). This haplotype is absent among non-Jews in 2099 analyzed in the study. It appeared there would be a 3000 ± 1000 years. This study nevertheless confirms that the current Cohen descended from a small number of paternal ancestors. In the summary of their findings the authors concluded that "Our estimates of the coalescence time also lend support to the hypothesis that the extended CMH represents a unique founding lineage of the ancient Hebrews that has been paternally inherited along with the Jewish priesthood."[48]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jewish_origins
     
  20. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Yes, and their priests who did not intermarry have been checked out in Europe and elsewhere now.
    They show that they had one common father who lived 3300 years ago.

    According to Exodus, the priests had Aaron as their father common father.
     
  21. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    But both of you believe Reality is the power source which is supernaturally creating everything, as it continually unfolds,... right?
     
  22. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    7,611
    Likes Received:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't see any genetic link to biblical Israelites here. Could have been 1 of a number of tribes in the region and given the history of the region in relation to bible context it wrong to assume a bulk of Israelite descent is from white folk, which is what this deception is trying to do
     
  23. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,645
    Likes Received:
    13,763
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No one has Aaron's DNA.. Its a childish claim.

    Meanwhile, you can scroll down and see just how much Apocalyptic writings there were.

    http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/
     
  24. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    17,005
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    48
    ?
    There have been few Jews who believed in the Bible.
    The record is that they did not.

    That is why they were dispersed over all the world.
     
  25. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    7,135
    Likes Received:
    596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well if both parents are Jewish and religious and the child is not-religious say is an Atheist they would still be a Jew.
    If one parent is then depending on the branch of the faith the child would be a Jew, for conservative branches the mother must be and for less conservative either parent can be a Jew there it falls to custom, teachings of the branch and the traditions of the respective Jewish sect.
     

Share This Page