"My God My God Why Have You Forsaken Me?"___The Lord Jesus

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by JAG*, Sep 28, 2020.

  1. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Here is my interpretation of , , ,
    "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"__The Lord Jesus

    "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son
    that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life."


    The Lord Jesus was made a sin offering.
    He bore the penalty of the "perish" of John 3:16

    During the time the Lord Jesus hung on the Cross His Father temporarily forsook
    His Son while His Son was bearing the penalty of sin for the world.

    Here is the verse.

    Note the caps.

    "GOD MADE him who had no sin TO BE SIN for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God"___2 Corinthians 5:21

    The point?

    God made Jesus who had no sin , , TO BE SIN for us.

    So?

    So while the Lord Jesus was "MADE , , TO BE SIN "
    the Father temporarily "turned His back" so to speak, on His Son the Lord Jesus.

    Something mysterious happened there on the Cross my friend, that forever changed the world.

    __________


    The Lord Jesus , , , "KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS" {Revelation 19:16}
    Isaiah 53 , , , ,
    "Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.

    But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.

    We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter."___ Isaiah chapter 53

    __________________


    Compare Isaiah 53 up there with 2 Corinthians 5:21 down below

    "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God"___2 Corinthians 5:21

    __________________

    By the way, Isaiah 53 was written hundreds of years BEFORE the Lord Jesus was born.

    _____________

    Thank you Dear God for loving the world and for sending your Son, the Lord Jesus, to die for the sins of the world.

    JAG
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  2. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    Another pile of garbage.
     
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  3. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your well thought out response to the OP.
    And thanks for the kindness and the courtesy as well.
    I can tell from your comment that you are a warm-hearted
    human being that has a lot of love in his heart for others.

    Best.

    JAG

    Thought For Today.
    "And we know that in all things God works for the
    good of those who love him, who have been
    called according to his purpose"___Romans 8:28


    ``

    ``
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  4. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. Never could see why people say that, "God gave up his son ..." when God knew He was going to resurrect his Son and give him a place
    next to Him, by His side, a couple of days later.

    At best you could say that God rented his son out for a week and then reclaimed him. He surely didn't "give him up".

    Other people have endured years of torture and finally death by starvation and disease. Or have endured years of painful cancer. Christ had a couple of really bad days and a fairly quick death in comparison.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  5. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

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    Its the cry of a desperate man who has realised that there is no god and he has endured incredible suffering for nothing. Millions more would suffer,die and realise that there was no god to help them.
     
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  6. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Jesus had a bad long weekend for your sins.
     
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  7. undertheice

    undertheice Well-Known Member

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    your response is among the most callous and ignorant i have ever seen. if the mythos were to be true, then the christ would have known nothing of the trials about to befall him. having been stabbed twice, i wouldn't wish that fate on my worst enemy and yet this christ figure endured much worse. this is about the suffering, not the final outcome. that people like you make so little of it is more evidence that you have no idea what true suffering is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  8. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Would you endure a painful, humiliating death on a cross for someone else, especially if you were innocent and the Ruler and Creator of the universe? It would be like the Queen of England getting crucified for an ant.

    What God did at Calvary was like a judge who rightly sentenced someone for their crimes, then paid the fee himself.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  9. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    God created the world in which torture is an everyday occurance. His design. Anything He had to endure was the direct result of the choices he made.
    Humans could have been designed differently.
     
  10. Ronald Hillman

    Ronald Hillman Banned

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    This is at the heart of your ancient morals, you rejoice that someone was prepared to die for the crimes you committed, its a repugnant idea.
    Jesus died for,
    All the child murderers,
    All the serial killers,
    All the terrorists'
    All the tyrants,
    What a mixed up moral code!
     
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  11. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's only Christian interpretation that he died for someone else. The Jewish preacher died because he had offended the Jewish religious authorities and had made their man made rules look ridiculous. He believed his mission was to return his people to the simple truth of Yahweh and the 10 commandments. Not much of the Hogwash added later. Many Christians where persecuted and put to death for defying Catholic teachings down the centuries. There's no evidence that the preacher was divine, except your interpretation of words in a book, some of which deny his divinity. Matthew and Luke's Nativity stories are simply made up - against all known regulations of the time and using OT verses out of context, and adding things that aren't there.
    His cry from the cross was quite natural. He had felt a calling, followed it, and now the god he had been brought up to believe in seemed to be deserting him.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
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  12. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Its quite an unjust thing to do if the crime was severe and should see some actual punishment. The whole concept of vicarious redemption is morally bankrupt.
     
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  13. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot of wisdom in that up there.
    A magnificent way to phrase it.
    Amen to that.

    Thanks for your contribution to the thread.

    Best.

    JAG

    ``
     
  14. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Testing testing
    A Follow-up post , , ,

    There is another aspect -- that the Lord Jesus said "MY God My God Why Have You Forsaken Me?"
    to call attention to the Psalm 72 that He was quoting

    Start quote.
    "There is another possible reason for Jesus to cry out, “My God, my God,
    why have you forsaken me?” It could be that Jesus’ intent in quoting
    Psalm 22:1 was to point His hearers to that psalm. When they read
    Psalm 22, they would no doubt see the many fulfilled prophecies
    included in that song of David. Even while experiencing the agony
    of the cross, Jesus was teaching the crowds and proving yet again
    that He was the Messiah who fulfilled the Scripture."
    End quote
    https://www.gotquestions.org/forsaken-me.html

    _______________


    My view is that both are true
    {1} My Op
    and
    {2} The Psalm 72 reason.


    JAG


    ``
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  15. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Isaiah 53 did not exist. Come to that nor did the other Chapters and verses in the Bible. Books were written as whole books. Chapters and verses were added by a Catholic Priest in the 13th centuryCE.

    I repeat Isaiah is a complete book without chapters, and about Israel. You can deny it as you deny other facts. That does not make any difference.

    . Got Questions - the Christians favourite biased reference.

    I repeat. There is no reference to Jesus in the OT.
     
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  16. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    You are assuming that "give Him up" means permanently
    giving Him up when the idea of permanence is not involved
    in what happened on Calvary. It was never God Plan to
    permanently abandon His Son the Lord Jesus and I don't
    mean to be rude but it is unreasonable to put a permanent
    interpretation on John 3:16's "For God so loved the world
    that he gave His one and only Son that whoever believes
    on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life."

    Your unreasonable interpretation of God's word "gave", in
    order to be permanent, would require that God allow His
    Son to be killed and stay dead. This is unreasonable.

    One core message of Christianity is Easter -- the
    fact that the Lord Jesus was raised from the dead and
    He ever lives to make intercession for His people -- His
    sheep. "My sheep hear my voice and they follow me,
    I give then Eternal Life and they shall never perish."
    {John 10:28}

    Another core message of Christianity is that the future of
    the Human Race is forever linked with the future work of
    the Lord Jesus, who will in the future be "King Of Kings
    And Lord Of Lords" and will one day be the Righteous
    Judge of all men at The Judgment.

    It was never God's Plan to allow His Son to "stay dead."

    ``
    All the humans that suffered deserved their suffering as do
    all men -- all men will face the suffering of Disease and Death
    if they die from natural causes -- otherwise they will suffer
    accidental Death and the pain that often causes.

    The Sin Principle entered , , ,
    the world and brought Pain, Suffering, and Death -- the Lord
    Jesus was "given" to eliminate Pain, Suffering, and Death
    and He did exactly that , , , the Lord Jesus says "He that
    believes in me, will never die" -- He meant they will never
    die permanently but will be given the gift of Eternal Life
    after physical Death.

    Regarding some humans suffering a death more painful
    than Crucifixion: That is true. for example your prolonged
    cancer example --- but they were humans and NOT
    innocent of Sin -- whereas the Lord Jesus never one
    time committed any Sin -- He was the perfect "sin
    offering" and that did not deserve what He suffered.

    By the way, most people would probably choose a prolonged
    death from cancer before they would choose to be crucified.
    You try and picture how it would feel to have spikes driven
    through your hands and feet and be nailed to a piece of
    wood and you had to hang there for some 6 hours before
    you died --- plus be beaten severely prior to being nailed
    to a Cross.

    Moreover the Roman Soldiers did more to the Lord Jesus
    than crucifixion ---

    He was , , ,
    ~ insulted repeatedly
    ~ mocked viciously
    ~ spit upon
    ~ beaten with fists
    ~ flogged with a whip
    ~ slapped in the face
    ~ falsely accused
    ~ tortured with a crown of thorns jammed down upon His head
    ~ forced to carry His own Cross {much of the way to Calvary}

    ~ not to mention the severe Agony In The Garden Of Gethsemane
    Where He fell to the ground 3 separate times in earnest prayer
    to the Father that this cup be allowed to pass from me, nevertheless
    not my will but thy will be done.

    ___________________


    Daniel Light, God loves you and He sent His Son to die for you
    on a cruel Cross. The Lord Jesus says to you in Revelation 3:20
    that He stands at the door and knocks and invites you to open
    the door. You can do that by praying, from the heart, this simple
    prayer:

    "Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for Your
    forgiveness. I believe You died for my sins and rose from
    the dead. I turn from my sins and invite You to come into
    my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You as my Lord
    and Savior. In Your Name."
    __from the Billy Graham Crusades

    JAG


    ``
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  17. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    https://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_jesus_praying.htm


    If Jesus is God, then who was he praying to on the cross when he said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me"? (cf. Mark 15:34; Matthew 27:46) Was he praying to himself? If so, was he complaining to himself about why he had forsaken himself?

    Answer:

    The Holy Bible teaches that there are three distinct, yet inseparable Persons who exist as the one true God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The three Persons of God, because they are personally distinct, have loving communion and dialog amongst themselves. Therefore, the Lord Jesus wasn't praying to himself on the Cross, but was actually praying to the Person of the Father.

    Furthermore, the Holy Bible also teaches that Jesus became, and forever will remain, a true human being. It is, therefore, not surprising that Christ did what every God-fearing person is supposed to do, namely pray and worship God. Jesus is man as God intends all men to be, namely a perfect servant who perfectly submits and worships the true God.

    Now, as to why the Lord cried out to the Father that he had been forsaken by him, this was due to Christ being our sin-bearer. According to the Scriptures, the Lord Jesus came to die as our substitute in order to take upon himself the judgment and wrath of God which came as a result of sins:

    "The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, 'Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!'" John 1:29

    "God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished – he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." Romans 3:25-26

    "that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." 2 Corinthians 5:19-21

    "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue TO DO everything written in the Book of the Law.' Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, 'The righteous will live by faith.' The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, 'The man who DOES THESE THINGS will live by them.' Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse FOR US, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.' He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit." Galatians 3:10-14

    "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed." 1 Peter 2:24

    "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit," 1 Peter 3:18

    As we saw in response to the first question, sin resulted in the loss of intimate communion with God and also brought on physical death, where the soul departs from the body and the body returns to the dust from which it originally came. God's wrath is poured out on sinners as a result of their rebellion and wickedness, because of their failure to do what God's Law requires (cf. Genesis 2:17, 3:19; Isaiah 59:1-2; Psalm 66:18; Habakkuk 1:13; Romans 1:18-32).

    Jesus' cry and the darkness which came upon the land at noon was an indication that God was punishing Christ in our place, that Jesus suffered the loss of God's intimate, loving fellowship in place of sinners:

    "From the sixth hour (noon) until the ninth hour (three o'clock) darkness came over all the land. About the ninth hour (three o'clock) Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’ – which means, ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’" Matthew 27:45-46

    Contrast this with the following OT citations:
     
  18. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    TASE,
    That was an excellent post -- much appreciated.
    Thank you for your valuable contribution to the thread.

    Best.

    JAG

    ``
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  19. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    thing is, depends on which writer you read as to what he says Jesus's last words were

    https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080203125055AAKGzxF

    Jesus' last words

    Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

    Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

    John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you mean if I knew I could not die and had god like powers, would I put on such a show?

    tell people that they had to kill me to get my forgiveness or I would send them to hell

    I suppose this is the same God that told a father to kill his son, so there is that....
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  21. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Ever hear of Rasputin?

    He said that the meaning of Jesus' sacrifice was reversed. In order to die for our sins the Jesus figure, (Rasputin) had to COMMIT all the sins himself, while everyone else remained pure. So he took his follower's wives and daughters for himself while making them all go pray somewhere. Wotta guy. David Koresh did that too, and God knows how many others

    Just goes to show that once you get religious people behind you, then you can do ANYTHING, once you shout JESUS, JESUS, JESUS . You want to **** everyone's wives? JESUS, JESUS, JESUS. You want their underage daughters too? JESUS, JESUS, JESUS, Oh and don't forget all their money, JE....well, you get the idea.

    I'm sorry but religion just GETS to me sometimes.
     
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  22. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    There is no problem here.
    Your focus on Jesus's "last words" is where your error lies.

    All three of your quoted New Testament texts were Jesus'
    last words -- He made all 3 of those statements as His final
    utterances.

    John is minutes away from death, John says.
    [1} Mary my love you have been a good and noble wife.
    {2} I am glad I had time to put my estate in order.
    {3} I am glad I put my faith in the Lord Jesus as my
    Savior and that all is well with my soul.
    John then died.

    All three statement were John's last words.

    You see a problem where there is no problem.

    JAG

    ``
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  23. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Apart from the fact that 'John' wasn't Jesus.
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    sorry, but he could not of said all 3 things as his last words, pick one
     
  25. JAG*

    JAG* Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020

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