NATO may die if trump is re-elected.....

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Jimbo11, Dec 3, 2019 at 9:19 AM.

  1. Jimbo11

    Jimbo11 Well-Known Member

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    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/02/nato-donald-trump-second-term

    Putin is rubbing his hands together with glee. He has helped install a total Idiot who will hand Western Europe over to Russian control and probably send in US troops to help the Russians in their invasion. Those of you who still support this Traitor, need to wake up. He is the Hitler of the 21st Century....
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 9:19 AM
  2. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member

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    That is pretty sad that NATO cannot survive without the US. That should make you wonder why we have to provide defense for the rest of the world. Shouldn't they be defending themselves?
     
  3. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Bet you are really upset he defended NATO today.
     
  4. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We cant have all NATO countries paying their agreed upon share and living up to their commitments. What a travesty!
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 9:33 AM
  5. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    We should withdraw from NATO. I would rather see us defending the U.S. and let Europe defend itself. Pretty harsh to refer to Putin as Hitler.
     
  6. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Well-Known Member

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  7. stratego

    stratego Well-Known Member

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    NATO is useless. US allies with Russia and that's all the mutual defense we need.
     
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  8. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member

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    Why are we defending Europe? Washington warned us of "foreign entanglements", and Eisenhower warned us of the "military-industrial complex".
     
  9. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member

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    Are you in danger of going to a gas chamber?

    Stop with the childish Hitler comparisons.
     
  10. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, Europe has wanted to align with Russia for years. Long before Trump. You think Germany’s energy deals with Putin are because Trump is president? Good grief. NATO should be dissolved. We shouldn’t be protecting countries sleeping with the enemy. They made their choice. Let them deal with it.
     
  11. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Bad timing. We did that your way once and WW I and WW II were the result. Putin is on the move. He violated the sanctity of two countries borders, something that the civilized world abhors. NATO was founded for just such an eventuality. Europe contributes a lot to NATO and they are paying their agreed upon budget for military expansion. The EU is the united states of Europe. Comparing what Belgium spends on military vs. U.S. is like comparing Alabama's contribution to the military vs. the EU.

    NATO is a strong military deterrent unless some moron like Trump starts meddling with something about which he knows nothing.
     
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  12. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member

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    Russia is a bigger threat to Europe than the US. Why should we be the primary contributor to NATO?
     
  13. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    Europe increasingly dependent on oil imports, above all from Russia

    July 15, 2016 by Energy Post
    European dependence on oil imports has grown from 76% in 2000 to over 88% in 2014. The EU spends some €215 bn on oil imports, over 5 times as much as gas imports (€40 bn). Russia is the biggest supplier: dependence on Russia has grown from 22% in 2001 to 30% in 2015. These are some of the main conclusions of a study from Cambridge Econometrics made for the Brussels-based NGO Transport & Environment (T&E).

    According to “A Study on oil dependency in the EU”, published on 11 July, since 2000, there has been a gradual decline in total final consumption of oil and petroleum products in the EU (on average a 1.1% reduction per annum). As a Briefing based on the study notes, this decline is due to “a reduction of oil demand outside the transport sector, improvements in vehicle efficiency, the blending of biofuels and, in more recent years, reduced demand following the recent global economic downturn.”

    Despite this decline, the EU has become increasingly dependent on crude oil imports, which now amount to 88% of the region’s total consumption. Diesel imports doubled between 2001 and 2014 to €35 bn in 2014. In 2015 (when the oil price was exceptionally low), total spending on crude oil imports in the EU was €187 bn, making a total of around €215 bn, €425 per capita. According to T&E, the EU should not just be talking about gas imports when it comes to energy security, but also about its dependence on oil and diesel imports.

    https://energypost.eu/europe-increasingly-dependent-oil-imports-russia/

    While subsidizing the defense of Europe against our mutual adversary, Europe is filling our adversary's pockets with cash.

    Judging from the date of the article, who was President during the collapse of NATO and wasn't smart enough to know it?
     
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  14. MolonLabe2009

    MolonLabe2009 Well-Known Member

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    Just imagine the amount of defense spending we would save if NATO nations would use their own money to defend themselves?
     
  15. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    With Trump, all roads lead to Putin.
     
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  16. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It seems stronger than ever.
     
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  17. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Trump is his own kind of evil. Hitler was a competent bad guy, Trump is a bumbling bad guy.
     
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  18. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    Kind of funny, the Russians interfered in our election, and now certain people are quite ok with Russia. Mmm, I wonder which ones.
     
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  19. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member

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    You appear to be a bit confused. We want Russia controlled. We just don't think we should be the ones doing the majority of the work.
     
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  20. william kurps

    william kurps Well-Known Member

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    They pay next to nothing , American tax payers are the ones footing the bill
     
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  21. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    Hitler was a left-wing Progressive as was Mussolini as was Stalin as was Woodrow Wilson as was Robert Byrd as was White Supremacist Stephen A. Douglas who you honor with a monument in Chicago. Hitler modeled his concentration camps after your plantations, death camps after your lynchings and eugenics he learned from Margaret Sanger.

    Own them all. They are all yours.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019 at 11:39 AM
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  22. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Fine, then let Europe have their own NATO. I just want the US out of it. I want the US out of the UN as well so you can chew on that for a while.
     
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  23. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why?
     
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  24. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    Trump will probably keep the US in NATO, unfortunately, but why would Europe give up and disband NATO simply because the US pulled out and brung the troops home?

    Sure, in your dreams the US would send troops to fight shoulder to shoulder with the Russians in an invasion of Europe. Best thing would be to stay home, stay out of it, and shed no American blood on another continent in somebody else's fight.
     
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  25. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, Fiona Hill said it best backing up Trump. We need to normalize relations with Russia for world peace. Of course the democrats are against that.
     
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