Naval Sea Battle In Azov Sea - Russia captured 3 Ukrainian Ships

I think it looks like Ukraine must ask permission and Russia must give permission. But there was no request from Ukraine.

 

Yes once those countries come into conflict there is no treaty. So you are trying to say the BBC and everybody else outside of Russia is wrong about whos territorial water it is, Right?

 

Since what time BBC defines anything on anyones' territorial waters?
I just showed above - using facts - that either Russia or Ukraine don't consider their territorial waters in the Sea of Azov as a shared territory. Ukraine in the March 2018 detained Russian vessel in what Ukraine believed was their territorial waters. Russia detained these three boats in its territorial waters.
Also the bilateral agreement doesn't say anything about shared territorial waters. Moreover, it says that the Sea must be delimited: "The sea of Azov must be delimited by the state border in accordance with the Agreement signed by the Parties".
Maybe you know why BBC thinks this or that, I don't know. Or maybe you misunderstood BBC?

 

Ukraine based their claim on saying that a port in Crimea was their territory. Obviously the Russians dispute that due to taking Crimea. Which they have full control of.

 

Ukrainians detained the vessel not in a port, they detained it in the sea. So, regardless of the matter whose Crimea is, that shows Ukraine believes it has its territorial waters in the Sea of Azov. The same as Russia. And the agreement says the same - borders in the sea exist and they must be delimited. Just simple facts.

 

Agreed. Not asking permission - based on the captured orders that the Ukrainian captain kept - reveals and confirm this was a designer provocation.

 

Your own link says the Ukraine considers that part of Crimea to be their territory. After Putin went and just took that ****. Its evident that it doesn't matter what the Ukraine says. Crimea is now Russian territory.

The Ukrainians are welcome to go and try and take it from Putin.

 

mistake

 

Second mistake

 

I assumed the trial was being held in Crimea, but I realize it's much more serious, and that it would benefit Russia more to have the trial held in Moscow.

Poroshenko is trying to present the sailors as captives and the situation as a war with Russia, but Russia is not at war, so when they disobeyed the guards and wouldn't stop they committed a crime and are being tried as such under Russia's hooliganism law.

This is not all though. There seems to be much more here than meets the eye. If the men disobeyed orders and refused to shoot, why would they want to go back and face a possible firing squad? Yet if they said publicly that they want refuge in Russia, their families might be endangered. It wouldn't benefit Russia either since people would think their testimony was compromised.

Besides the sailors there were also agents on board the ships, and if a trial is held they will be forced to reveal everything. This is what Poroshenko and Nato do not want and why they're making such a big 'to do' about it.

Frankly, I think the sailors were from the Russian speaking areas, otherwise why would Poroshenko send them to their death?

 

This is just an organizational thing, as with any ship that wants to go to a harbor or, for example, through the Suez Canal needs a pilot on board!
But this was not the issue here ...

 

Crimea is to Russia what Puerto Rico is to the US, except much closer and they speak the same language and share much of the same culture and history.

 

So you agree its Russian territory, Right?

 

Actually I would say it's more like what Florida is to us than Puerto Rico, since originally it belonged to Spain but is now English speaking - that is with the exception of Miami. With Castro It turned from a Jewish into a Spanish speaking haven. (I'm only joking, Miami and Miami Beach are separate cities).

 

Just as much as American Samoa or PR is our territory.

 

Or maybe the upper peninsula of Michigan?

 

Correct!
If you take a look on Crimea it was since being conquered some hundred years ago, always Russian and about 80% of population is Russian! Only some questionable legal administative steps in the 1950's and the incompetence of Yelcin after end of USSR let the Crimea become Ukraine.

But again ... the Steet of Kerch is another issue...