Neely was a threat and a danger to everyone around him

I’m 100% certain I’m right since I used to arrest people for things like this. You’re out of your element and it’s very clear.

 

Both men were grown ass adults. I take it you don't keep up to date tabs with your adult children, even if they get into any type of trouble. So, where were you when they do?

 

Actually one of them did do that, but I am sorry to say I can't recall their names. There have been so many, it has become a blur.

 

So you told all witnesses to the crime to just leave without taking their names and statements.

And what is it you supposedly did?

 

They had both his arms restrained and the last guy was on his neck. There was no need to apply the level of pressure required to choke him out. That makes it murder, even assuming when initially taken down he was an imminent threat.

 

JFC, no. Taking witness statements is standard measure in crime scene investigations. That does not mean I would, while subduing a subject, listen to some random person about what they think was going on.
I have arrested people for threatening violence in public, actually assaulting people, and loads of other crimes. This was not a carotid choke it was an airway choke, they’re not the same thing btw.

 

Betcha Penny and Chauvin & thugs wished they listened to the eye -witnesses warnings.
Knowing you wouldn't have either listened to a witness is certainly nothing to brag about.
Talking about your "airway choke" and the chokehold, it must be six in one, half dozen in the other when it comes to killing someone, eh?

Subway Rider Choked Homeless Man to Death, Medical Examiner Rules
Jordan Neely died after a man held him in a chokehold. On Wednesday, the medical examiner’s office said the cause of death was compression of the neck, and ruled it a homicide.

 

listening to someone who you don’t know is telling the truth can get you in trouble, and not listening can as well. If they’re not some for of educated party, the safe thing isn’t to listen to them when you can just wait for the cops.

here’s a fun question before I ask about chokes; do you know the difference between the term “homicide” when used by an ME and the court?

 

The biggest issue in this whole case is the Subway person is NOT an LEO, never has been, and never was. But given the online reports, I can see why and how he reacted. I also see why the NYPD arrested him in order to get to the truth, which is important. But right now, everyone is reacting to the very little information out there and playing, quite literally, armchair quarterback. It is not the issue with the chokehold per se, it is the fact you are in a confined space, with nowhere to retreat, and the person was acting up, to say the least. However, I also trust the system, the judicial system, and he will have to account moment by moment of what happened. And what we cannot do is try to Starbucks this type of issue on each and every crime like it is patented into a standard policy. It is different with each case no matter if it was Perry, KR, Chauvin, or the ex-marine.

So for right now, let's see what the Grand Jury does first in a week or so. If he is billed for the crime, then let's see what the trial reveals and what the jury says.

 

Alwayssa, do you beleive the government should have a monopoly on use of force? I don't see why Penny not being a cop should matter. Either the dude had the right to use force or not, same as a cop.

Its all for a jury to decide now.

 

All states have what is called justifiable homicide given facts and circumstances, but the government is the only way where police get to make that determination based on their profession and are generally given more reasonable doubt than your average person. It is when the person thinks they are police that things get dicey to say to least. Those minute details determine the difference between justifiable homicide and homicide.

 

Bull sxxx, the police have no more right to use force than you or I.

You don't get more rights because the state gave you a gun and some jewelry.

 

I disagree due to both Chauvin and Penny held down these men and used extreme unwarranted force on both men's airways for extended periods of time, both were warned by bystanders that the victims were dying or dead and both continued using the same neck force resulting in killing them.

 

It's in the details. With Chauvin, he violated police procedure from the very get-go with that fake $20 bill. He had every right to inquire, but not what he did based on the crime. With Perry, the AF vet was legal, Perry was texting and driving when he ran into the crowd, disillusioned, and discharged his weapon. The irony of the Perry case, not one pro-gun nut was backing the BLM person who was obeying the law by openly carrying peacefully and in a non-threatening manner. But he is not the police. He was a civilian, the same as the Ex-Marine. But I trust the system, and right now everyone is playing armchair quarterbacking with very limited information. We have what people might have said, but not the actual witness statements. And it is those small details that determine whether it is justified or not, usually.

What I am saying is, trust the system. And Gov. Abbott has been deafly quiet after it was revealed that Perry made some nasty comments that were put into the trial, and probably got him convicted along with the other evidence.

 

Having video evidence of both Chauvin and Penny's actions with Floyd and Neely, unlike having for Perry, is not considered "very limited information".
We do have an interview by the man who videoed Penny, then his video includes the voice of another man telling Penny that Neely defecated and he's "gonna kill him" yet Penny continued with the neck hold.

A bit OT but it was also video evidence from a restaurant that was not publicly released until the trial that showed James Fields (Charlottesville) stop his car for about 15 secs before he floored it and barreled down the street, into the crowd that resulted in killing Heather Hoyer...convicted on 1st premeditated degree murder.

 

We have less information about the subway incident than we have with Chauvin and Perry. And even that was limited to one degree or another. What we did not have, until after the trial, was all those text messages that Perry sent prior to going to Austin from Kileen/Ft. Hood. And even that we still had people defending these two as "justifiable homicide" and did it for political reasons, not legal ones. But when it comes to the NY subway, where you are in a confined space for just a few minutes with someone like that, it is hard to tell. I am not saying he is guilty or innocent, but I can see both sides of the argument because we mostly have internet reports of the he said/she said sort of thing. Hence why I am focusing on the system more than anything else.

 

The video guy said during his interview that after Penny brought Neely down with a chokehold from behind that most people soon exited the car when it stopped and very few people remained in the car.

btw: It was the chokehold,front and center and will be at the trial.

 

And that is going to be one of the evidence, but what we don't know is how this all started before most of those people exited the subway train. That is the key to the whole thing and will determine what the outcome will be.

 

It's NOT that Penny brought Neely down it's that Penny with the assistance of 2 guys kept Neely down in a chokehold for 15 mins until he was dead.
It's bullshit that after Neely was down three guys couldn't figure out another way to keep one slim guy down until the cops arrived without killing him by cutting off his oxygen.

 

It's common info all over the internet how it started by what Neely said and did.
You're talking about a man with mental issues ranting and raving YET he had no weapon and didn't violently assault anyone.

 

If Penny goes to trial his Marine training will be center stage and crucial in prosecutors putting down any defence that he didn't intend to kill Neely, it was an accident when all the while Penny knew exactly the deadly danger of chokeholds and what he was doing to Jordan Neely.
The big-boy Marine couldn't even stop when he was warned that Neely defecated and he was gonna kill him, which he succeeded in doing.


A Marine Vet Used a Chokehold Leading to a Man's Death. The Technique, Taught in Basic Training, Faces Fresh Scrutiny.


Recruits with Golf Company, 2nd Recruit Training Battalion, execute a figure-four variation during a Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) session at Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego, June 3, 2021. (Lance Cpl. Julian Elliott-Drouin/U.S. Marine Corps photo)

snip:

'Gabriel Murphy, a fellow Marine veteran who had a remarkably similar career to Penny, served one tour in the Corps from 2006 to 2010 as an assaultman Marine with 1st Battalion, 5th Marines, where he deployed with the 11th MEU in 2007 and to Afghanistan in 2009. He also ended up leaving the service as a corporal.

Last week, Murphy started an online petition that argued that "the individual who choked Mr. Neely to death should be prosecuted for murder."

"I hope that the military community joins me in disavowing the actions of this individual," it added.

In an interview with Military.com, Murphy said that training on chokeholds is "not something you touch once in boot camp and then go forget about."

Both Murphy and Penny received instruction on the Marines' version of martial arts -- the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) -- starting in boot camp. The official website of Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island notes that the Corps' graduation

requirements include that "all recruits undergo training in the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program throughout training" and adds that "they earn a tan belt, the entry-level belt of the five-level system."

According to the document that lays out the standards for the program, part of the tan belt curriculum includes training on performing a rear choke, in addition to a variety of strikes, counters and other takedown techniques.'

https://archive.is/zb6iE

https://www.military.com/daily-news...tions-about-use-of-marine-corps-training.html

 

My understanding is that they teach a blood choke (unless things changed). I could be wrong on this. But they basically train you to cut off the blood supply to the brain, not to prevent airflow. The first and last choke in your image are clearly blood chokes. The middle image is a little harder to tell, but it looks like he's going for a blood choke as well based on the tilt of the neck.

There's also a big difference when applying a choke to a willing and friendly participant who expects to go unconscious and someone who espouses violent rhetoric and then struggles to get free.

 

well, you seem like you know what you're doing. how did you come by your knowledge of chokes and/or containing a wild person?

 

Wild like in wildly ranting and throwing your jacket to the ground then when pinned down by the neck in a hold by 1 guy,then a second then third guy help holding you down while your arms and legs move as you're struggling for breath for 15 minutes until you die even after being given a warning that you're killing him?
That kind of wild?
Hey, I just saw another hoop you can jump through..go for it. lol

 

In the end whatever Penny's hold is determined to be it was deadly.