Negotiate Peace With Russia to Prevent War Over Ukraine

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Destroyer of illusions, Jan 2, 2022.

  1. Pixie

    Pixie Newly Registered

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    If no one asked, then I would call it a failure.
     
  2. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yep. The USSR and the Third Reich were buddy pals until the latter betrayed the former. After that?

    [​IMG]

    War.

    Today's Putin fans would have been Hitler fans back in the 30s and 40s, incidentally. Hitler and Putin use the same right-wing propaganda, and Putin is aggressive and expansionist like Hitler, a purportedly Christian strong-man allegedly acting in his national interests in a world of Jews and "leftists" and "fake news."
     
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  3. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    error
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2022
  4. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I want to add to this post because the situation seems to have similarities to WWII. If Ukraine does attack the Russians in Donbas and calls it a Russian false flag so Putin could invade Ukraine - which seems to be the likely scenario, and there is a plan a foot to put Galicia in the West under Germany's control, it would stabilize the country. After all the nationalists do identify with the Germans.

    Is stability in Ukraine though what the neo liberal/cons want? They want a situation where they can cause trouble for Moscow and knock out Vladimir Putin and put the criminal oligarch tax evaders back in control of Russia.

    Now Britain, true to its own neo liberal/con affinities, wants to unite its forces with Poland and the government in Kiev and fight the Russians should they invade. An invasion which should it happen, was brought on only because of the British and American propaganda networks.

    Would the British Poland alliance be though to fight the Russians, or would it be to keep Lviv and Galicia from ending up under German control and perhaps prevent the expulsion of the mafias from Ukraine? This of course would cause more instability in Ukraine - and that would be a neo liberal/cons dream.

    Anyway, Poland has never given up its dream of taking back the lands they were ethnically cleansed from by the Ukrainian nationalists in WWII, so it is a likely scenario.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2022
  5. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Yours is an innovative approach to understanding the Ukraine 'crisis', and I think most of it is at least plausible, except for the part about Germany 'taking' Galicia and the western part of Ukraine. I cannot, under any circumstance, imagine that happening....

    Do you understand who is running the German government now? We Americans never thought of Merkel as being at all 'Conservative' or 'Right-wing' -- or anything other than what Germany has been since the end of WWII -- a very successful country based on a loosely-socialistic, collaborative economic arrangement.

    But, compared to Merkel and her CDU Party, this new Olaf Scholz SPD 'coalition' with its over-the-top Socialists, its 'Greens', the über-Left, and other Loonie-tunes, radical, fringe cadres is turning the Bundestag into a virtual insane asylum full of anxiety-prone, bickering, delusional children! The very last (LAST) thing that today's Germany would want to do is to expand its borders and become some weird kind of "Fourth Reich", full of even more dispirited, large masses of people who have to suck a living off of government handouts.

    Hint: Germany has been happy to IMPORT huge numbers of all kinds of 'migrants' from all over the Third World, but they don't want to wrap German BORDERS around them!

    [​IMG]. "On the other hand, if we make 'em citizens, they'd probably vote for us Socialists...." :woot:
     
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  6. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually I'm not thinking in terms of Galicia becoming part of Germany. It took Germany 10 years to bring Eastern Germany up to par and they were a lot better off than poverty stricken Galicia. I was thinking more in terms of helping Western Ukraine establish a national government - which is probably what Putin will do in the East if they do invade and take over the Dombas.

    As for propaganda, according to a British tabloid Putin has chosen his pro Russian leader for Kiev, which just happens to be someone from Karchov who has been sanctioned by Russia, had his property confiscated by Russia and is not allowed in Russia. You figure!

    Anyway it's seems like a lot of projection. Wasn't it Nuland who said: "Yat's the man," in reference who should be president of Ukraine? She didn't want Klitschko, who I believe was closely connected with Germany - so there might be something there.

    I read that the flights with arms from Britain to Ukraine avoided flying over Germany for fear they might be forced to land. As for the government, what a time for Merkel to leave. They are though under pressure from the business community which needs gas and is heavily invested in Russia. They certainly don't want a war in Europe.
     
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  7. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lot's of projection there. Sorry, but it's not Russia that's blasting invasion, invasion, invasion all over the world. Ukraine wasn't even mentioned In Russia's security council meeting,

    Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov is sick and tired of repeating that Russia has no plans to invade. He believes, and which I tend to agree with, that Ukraine is being pushed by London and Washington to attack the 2 Republics and want to present Russia as being the aggressor.

    Wasn't Russia accused of being the aggressor when Sashkavili attacked S. Ossetia and killed the Russian peacekeepers as well as civilians and wasn't the accusation proven false when the EU investigated?

    In the meantime, the Europeans have no intelligence saying Russia is planning to attack Ukraine. As for the British planes with arms heading to Kiev, they have been circumventing Germany for fear they may be forced to land. Now the latest is that if Russia invades Ukraine, which it will only do to defend the people in the republics from genocide, they will sanction Russia's exports with large tariffs.

    Oh well I guess that's one way to get countries to buy American goods at higher prices and destroy Germany and the EU's economy at the same time.


     
  8. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    One of the main things Russia wants for "negotiation" is that they want us to somehow prevent Ukraine from ever being able to join NATO. That's up to Ukraine and NATO. But that's one of Russia's main demands. They are just looking for an excuse to invade.
     
  9. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Keep beating that mantra, after all it is what you're being told.


    B R A I N W A S H I N G
    [​IMG]
    When white's called black and black's called white,
    how happy we'll all be.

    For we'll be told we're living well
    and we will all agree.

    And should one say that they're in pain
    and doesn't see their gain.

    We'll pity them for we'll all know
    that they must be insane.
    - Jeannette


     
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  10. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    What, specifically, is incorrect?
     
  11. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    China is the only other one blasting invasion. Glad you think the Russian troops are on a camping trip.

     
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  12. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure all 100,000 troops are just there to roast marshmallows.
     
  13. The Sentinel

    The Sentinel Active Member

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    No, it wasn't. In fact, it's well documented that Russia began openly supporting the separatist movements and ethnic cleansing against Kartvelian people in April of 2008 and moved many of their troops in prior to the August escalation. If another country started materially supporting separatist movements and ethnic cleansing inside of Russia, Russia would rightly see them as an aggressor. So yes, Russia was being the aggressor in that case.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War#The_EU_report
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
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  14. Elam

    Elam Banned

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    THAT was a very interesting "war"... especially how a certain special group of civilians in South Ossetia were targeted.

    Later, the former President of Georgia, tie-eating Saakashvili, shows up in Ukraine and becomes Governor of Odessa which is also famous for a certain special group of civilians.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
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  15. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The impartiality of that article is disputed. Try reading the actual report and form your own conclusion and not a biased conclusion written by others for political expediency.

    Sashkavili started the war by bombing S. Ossetia - no doubt geared on by Washington since he was their man. The Russian peacekeepers were there to control the ethnic strife, but according to the report they weren't always able to manage it.

    The criticism towards Russia is that they went beyond what was necessary, but then again if was the US, they would still be in Georgia.

    Reuters:
    Georgia started war with Russia: EU-backed report

    And here's Sashkavili eating his tie. The last I heard he's a wanted man in Georgia for corruption.

     
  16. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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  17. The Sentinel

    The Sentinel Active Member

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    Is Sashkavili what you call Saakashvili in Russian?

    You didn't address my point about how directly supporting separatist movements inside another country's borders is an aggressive act.
     
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  18. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those Russians troops are located 178 kilometers away and in Russian territory - but our propaganda networks won't tell you that now will they? They won't tell you that Ukraine now has lined up all it's troops on the demarcation line of the Donbas Republics either. Nor will it tell you that the EU hasn't found any Intelligence that Russia is planning an attack.

    So why all the hype and lies in the media? Well one reason is so London and Washington could keep sending arms to Ukraine in preparation for the war that the neo cons have been clamoring for - but not only for their pockets, but with the hope the Russian troops will be caught in a quagmire and it will cause Vladimir Putin to lose the support of the Russian people. As for the lives that will be lost, that's inconsequential.

    Their hope is to bring Russia back to the way it was under the Yeltsin years, when the olgarchs who were financed by foreign banks were sending all their money to off shore accounts and the Russian people were going hungry.

    Well the Ukrainians are now going hungry, after all they have their own bank financed oligarchs. These are the same oligarchs who are lobbying and payrolling our elected officials in Washington for their support.


     
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  19. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Would somebody please tell us what the HELL is really going on?! Ukraine Defense Minister Reznikov says that nobody is worried about Russia invading them: https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukraine-urges-clam-russian-invasion-imminent-82457773

    On top of that, instead of disappearing into a command post to wage war, Vladimir Putin is going to go to Beijing to cheer Russia's athletes on in the Winter Olympics!

    Does this make sense to anybody, while the Biden admn. is hurriedly rushing $200 million in military 'stuff' to Ukraine, and the NATO countries are all in a tizzy, convinced by the U.S. that a 'Winter War' with Russia is just about to erupt in Europe....?! :shocked:
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
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  20. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    First of all I don't know Russian nor have I ever been to Russia. I am what you call a 'Christian', you know the ones who were being killed by terrorists at the rate 300 a day - mostly in Syria? I despise lies and hypocrisy.

    As for your question, if the separatists are terrorists like the Albanian KLA that we supported in Kosovo under the pretext of genocide, or terrorists such as ISIS and Al Nusra in Syria that we are still supporting in order to steal their oil, then I certainly would consider it aggression.

    If though they are like the Russians in Donbas, who are trying to preserve themselves from ethnic cleansing and genocide by the same people who burned and hacked the Russian protesters in Odessa - then Russia would certainly have a humanitarian obligation to intervene.

    I recall a time when we too were humane; not in fiction like with Clinton in Kosovo who entered under a pretense of genocide, but in reality. Unfortunately, that's changed, now we're a predatorial nation.

    .

     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
  21. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Newly Registered

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    In war-mongering, regime change America, we call that 'foreign aid'. See Syria, et al.
     
  22. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Months ago I read that 2 neo liberal/con writers in Washington wanted a war between Ukraine and Russia - which immediately raised my suspicions. I know that Ukraine has massed troops along the demarcation line of the 2 Republics.

    I fear that Ukraine might be waiting for Vladimir Putin to go to the Olympic Games in China to attack, because it was when Putin was at the last games in China that Georgia attacked S. Ossetia. It was also at the games in Socchi when Vladimir Putin was distracted, that Nuland had her coup in Kiev.

    I fear the British agents in Ukraine are preparing a chemical attack against the Russians in Donetsk and this is why they were spreading that Russia is a preparing a false flag attack to start a war.


    I hope I'm wrong, but if I was Vladimir Putin or Shoigu, I would be prepared for any eventuality. Also the hype of a war in Ukraine might be a distraction. Washington could be planning to attack Russia internally and elsewhere.
     
  23. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh well! If the neo liberal/cons had dreams of a war between Ukraine and Russia, I don't think it's gonna happen.

    Here are videos of what's going on in Kiev. Seems the Ukrainians are not too happy about a new law and are storming Parliament. No wonder Poroshenko went back - probably to add his two cents to the riots.

    As the saying goes, man, or rather neo cons make their plans, but God has his own.


    https://twitter.com/IskraMaltsev/st...47344-kiev-protest-business-parliament-storm/

    https://twitter.com/dyadushka_ho/st...47344-kiev-protest-business-parliament-storm/
     
  24. Tahuyaman

    Tahuyaman Well-Known Member

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    NATO bringing in Ukraine is highly unlikely. There are European countries which would not approve of that.


    Still Ukraine joining NATO would force Russia to back off. They wouldn't like that, but they would.

    I agree that there's nothing here to negotiate.
     
  25. Tahuyaman

    Tahuyaman Well-Known Member

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    Ukraine is not going to initiate an attack on Russia. Neither will the US.
     

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