New German Battle Ship capable to fire projectiles into space

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Sobo, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    We would have had an impossible task if Hitler had knocked out the UK and Soviet Union. Hitler might have knocked out the Soviets if he had continued pushing through Moscow and cut the rail lines running north-south. Anyone familiar with air war over the UK knows a continued push on the airfields and radar cites by the Luftwaffe would probably finished off the RAF making an invasion possible.
     
  2. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Assuming the UK and USSR were defeated by 42 43.
     
  3. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    When Hitler wasn't able to take out the Brits or the Soviets, and the U.S. joined the Allies, it was just a matter of time until Germany was defeated.
     
  4. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Excuse me



    Why does Germany require a battleship?


     
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  5. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Aircraft carriers and planes make more sense along with a uranium enrichment program like Iran.
     
  6. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    Every time I read the title for this thread my mind wonders, "Just what in the hell did space do to the Germans that they want to shoot at it?"

    Really, I don't think anyone cares what the insignificant military that belongs to Germany can do or can not do.
     
  7. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Considering the greatest developments in twentieth century military technology were made by Germans it would be wise to take interest.
     
  8. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    Don't really care what the Germans do. Seriously, I don't. They are insignificant. They should capitalize on the tech and sell it to someone that can and will actually apply it. Preferably not Russia but who knows. It's Germany. They always find some way to wind up on the dark side. I think it's that built in German hubris.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2020
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  9. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    2031? Seems like more of an engineering concept.
     
  10. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    All that was impossible by the time the US got into the fight, so it was impossible for us to "almost lose".
     
  11. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    The book I mentioned showed the economic needs of Germany and how Stalin provided about 1/3 of Hitlers oil requirements even before the vast needs of a major offensive. It also mentioned the strategic metals he got from Stalin. All he did was cut his own throat and forced him to head for the oil fields and mines instead of Moscow. I think if he took Gibraltar instead, that would have been a huge threat to British ships and then concentrate on mid east oil which could have fulfilled all of his oil needs and kept the panzers moving.
    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/b...-world-war-ii-seize-all-oil-middle-east-34012
     
  12. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    I think it would have taken more than that to knock the UK out. ME-109 only had about 9 minutes of fuel over the target before heading back. ME-110 was a disaster. From what I've read, Hitler's interference with the ME-262 may have delayed it by a couple months. The main problem was the engines were not ready and because of the lack of certain metals, they had to use regular steel. Galland wasn't crazy about the 30mm cannons which were of course very effective if they hit something but he complained about the slow rate of fire which in a fast moving jet gave you little time to put many rounds on target. Even if Hitler did everything perfect and took out the UK and USSR, he had no navy to invade the US and never could have had the resources to invade. His only chance was to get the A-bomb first and use the Amerikabomber or upgraded V2. But the US was ahead and would have had it first if for no other reason there weren't any centrifuges big enough in Europe at the time. Then B-29 from Greenland or Iceland should have been able to hit Germany.
     
  13. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Interesting ... most of the world says the same since decades and these days about the USA. And the strange truth is that Germany accepts that they had dark sides in their history and learned of it ... but the US didn't want to see that they are all to often on the dark side with their actings in the world or want to excuse it with silly reasoning like "it was cold war" or "the USSR was more evil" and so on.
    The US always need a foreign enemy in their foreign policies ... and they declare them as the evil, but that they act all to often same way evil ... no way that this can be true!
     
  14. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    In Battle of Britain it was a question of bombing and the British Radar gave enough early warning for the RAF to act... first error the Germans did - here Goering himself who denied to put the clear visible radar stations on the main target list.
    Sure, the BF/Me-109 had not much fuel over Britain these days for air combat (and yes, the Me-110 was as daylight fighter a disaster, in other rules as nightfighter excellent), but with no radar as help, the defence against Luftwaffe would have been critical.

    The Me-262 could have been put in service a year earlier as it did finally. Sure, it had problems, but much were delays of category stupid decisions by Hitler, Goering and some others...

    The main issue is again that iti s a sum of stupid decisions ... the Navy could have much earlier much more first class subs and not backing in sum mostly on the type "VIIc" ... also 2 or more arcraft carriers could have been in service, if Goering and Doenitz had not a private war in matter of Luftwaffe won't support Navy and declares that all what flys is Luftwaffe.
    And about B-29 ... or even the B-36 Peacemaker which was developed in WW-2 as bomber to fly from US to Europe and back ... would have been in serious trouble with a network of German radar stations and masses of Me-262 interceptors ... remember about how Mig-15 slaughter the B-29 over Korea if not heavely defended by F-86 or doing night bombing ... and here at night, German earned a master class in nightfighting too.
    And then the so called America Bomber ... looking on the Horton Jets which look like a predecessor of the B-2 these days ...

    In core I want only to say that fortunately Hitler lost due to a huge mass of bad and wrong decisions ... but all this "what if" is at least only brain gaming with no real sense in my opinion. ;-)
     
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  15. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    We ARE the most powerful military force in the world. Berlin is just one example of Germany forgetting their history. The USSR raped (literally) the Germans and yet they forget.
     
  16. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    So one comparatively small war against a vastly inferior force that happened about 30 years ago.

    Congrats.

    Now compare that to the stunning failure of wars like Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya, just to name a few of the most obvious and severe failures.

    So 70,000 Americans dead for nothing. Tens of thousands more wounded. And you have the gall to make fun of Germany? At least they aren't wasting mountains of blood and treasure on failed wars.

    Oh well... as long as the trillions of dollars that are being wasted aren't 2003 dollars, then it must not be a big deal... or something...

    I'm not comparing them. I'm pointing out the absurdity and the hypocrisy of chauvinistic Americans making fun of Germany's military.

    Germany is one of the most peaceful and prosperous countries in the world. Germany spends its money wisely and doesn't waste its blood and treasure on a bloated empire. Germany isn't drowning in debt. You should fix yourself first, then maybe you will have a leg to stand on.
     
  17. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Nothing you say can change the fact that the WORLD war was started by the UK and France declaring war on Germany.

    And, yes, Germany probably wanted to invade the Soviet Union and destroy the Bolshevik cancer within. We should have let them. Instead, we came to the rescue of Bolshevik mass murderers who went on to conquer and enslave half of Europe for almost five decades.
     
  18. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    The US was never on the sidelines. FDR and his corrupt Wall Street syndicate were always looking for ways to get the US involved in a war against the Axis powers. FDR was a liar and a tyrant who violated the constitution on a regular basis. Just ask the 100,000 Americans he threw into concentration camps based on nothing more than pure racism against Japanese people.

    Anyway, the US destroyed Germany, which allowed Stalinist cancer to spread across half of Europe for almost five decades.

    Nice job there. You substituted one authoritarian power for another, even worse one.
     
  19. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    They could have held each of these as occupiers. In every case, they finally realized their goal was unachievable.
    Fair enough if you don't count WW1 and WW2.
    You do know the ship was from WW2--right?

    Anyway, the Gulf War was the only war I supported in the past 60 years, and that war might have been avoided in Saddam had been told he wouldn't be allowed to take Kuwait.
    I'm not responsible for the policies.
     
  20. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Too bad he had to wait for so long. Germany and Japan were menaces.
    I visited the Japanese internment camps and Dachau. There's no comparison.
    It was necessary, although the U.S. could have forced Stalin out of Eastern Europe.
    Not worse than Hitler.
     
  21. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    And?

    How far back do you want to go?

    Do you?

    Because I fail to see its relevance to Germany's MODERN navy.

    So your own government is starting multiple unnecessary wars, but somehow Germany is the problem?

    Perhaps not, but you are responsible for helping to perpetuate a double-standard that holds the USA to a far lower standard than every other country in the world.
     
  22. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Not to America, they weren't. Not until the US government began taking sides.

    Sure there is.

    They're both examples of people being thrown into prisons based on racism.

    The only reason Japanese-Americans didn't suffer the same fate as the prisoners in Europe is because American civilization wasn't utterly destroyed by Axis bombing. Had that happened, there can be little doubt that the roughly 100,000 Japanese-Americans being held prisoner by the racist US government would have died, either as a result of direct execution or indirectly as a result of disease and/or starvation.

    Coulda, shoulda, woulda, but ultimately didn't, making the entire justification for WWII (protecting the sovereignty of eastern Europe countries) totally moot and pointless.

    Debatable.

    Stalin caused the deaths of more people than Hitler and oversaw the conquest of virtually all of eastern Europe.

    If we're going by pure death and destruction, there are few who can match Stalin.
     
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  23. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    And what? Their goals were unrealistic. Occupying South Vietnam wasn't sustainable because the American people weren't willing to send their men to do it. Why not? Because there was no reason to occupy the country.
    I didn't say that. All I did was poke fun at the German navy.
     
  24. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    They were menaces to the world.
    So, if Japan had been in a position to bomb the U.S., America would have created concentration camps like Dachau? Auschwitz?
    I don't think they would have organized the extermination of people.
    It was a criticism of the Allies, particularly the United States.
    Hitler was a greater menace.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
  25. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    You mean the German coast guard. They haven't had a blue water navy for 75 years...
     

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