"New York State gets back 90 cents for each dollar it sends to D.C."

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by archives, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    "New York State gets back 90 cents for each dollar it sends to D.C."
    "New York State got back 90 cents in federal spending for every dollar it sent to Washington last year, one of the biggest imbalances in payments between the states and federal government, according to a new report."

    "New York placed among the five states with the largest negative balance in payments. States, on average, received a return of $1.19 per tax dollar sent to the federal treasury."

    "The state generated 8 percent of the federal government's tax receipts, including 8.8 percent of income tax payments. Those percentages were higher than our shares of nationwide population and personal income."

    https://www.newsday.com/business/taxes-dinapoli-federal-spending-imbalance-albany-1.22053241

    "The 10 States That Give More to the Feds Than They Get Back"
    "Residents in Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey and New York have some of the highest tax bills in the nation. They also pay thousands more in federal taxes than their state receives back in federal funding."

    "In total, 10 states are so-called donor states, meaning they pay more in taxes to the federal government than they receive back in funding for, say, Medicaid or public education. North Dakota, Illinois, New Hampshire, Washington state, Nebraska and Colorado round out the list.

    https://www.governing.com/week-in-finance/gov-taxpayers-10-states-give-more-feds-than-get-back.html

    Where would all those Red States be without Blue States subsidizing them?

    The very ones who complain about income distribution, Gov't dependence, and socialism, are the very same ones who rely on all three
     
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  2. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never can quite wrap my head around why people think this is a good argument.

    Liberals:

    The wealthy must share their wealth with the poor.

    Also liberals:

    Waah all our wealth is going to the poor and they don't appreciate it.
     
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  3. bx4

    bx4 Well-Known Member

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    Those who complain loudest about income redistribution are the biggest beneficiaries.
     
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  4. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They would be better off according to them. I agree with them.

    Take a good hard look at all the places that are trying the liberal strategy to end poverty. Careful to look down now and then on your search or you might step in the feces. You also might want to bring a bullet proof vest.

    Do you know how poverty was cut in half around the world? It wasn't handouts. It was Enterprise. It was expanded access to the world market. It was open access to information and education.

    But what do all those dumb poor people know right? Just keep advocating for people to throw money at the government so you can feel like you're helping. Not your money of course. That's yours after all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
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  5. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And you're right to tell them they are wrong to complain. Who would know better? You or them?
     
  6. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course a good portion of those funds from blue to red are paying farm and energy subsidies so that people in blue cities can have inexpensive junk food made of corn sugar, and heat for their rent controlled apartments.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  7. Rush_is_Right

    Rush_is_Right Well-Known Member

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    The question is "Why does the money have to go to D.C. in the first place"?
     
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  8. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    Seems someone missed the point, as you are showing here, the very people that talk about benefits of free enterprise and danger of handouts are those receiving the handouts. The Blue States, that conservatives keep telling us are decrepit, are subsidizing the Red States making the claims, classic "do as I say, not as I do"

    Red State Socialism
     
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  9. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    Now that it is a stretch, tell is what energy does Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida provide for renters in NYC?
     
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  10. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    To pay for common sevices shared by all and defense of the country, and seemingly to bail out some Red States
     
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  11. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Northeast has very few federal entities like NASA and the military located there, so there isn’t as much federal spending in those states.

    I suppose we could launch rockets from
    Vermont, or take over half of New Jersey for a military base. That would help even up the imbalance.
     
  12. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    Exactly.

    Why do we send money to Washington where they take a 20% cut and then send the remaining 80% back to the states?

    Just keep the money local.
     
  13. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    Funding for the military comes out of the Pentagon budget, not given to the States
     
  14. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    Most of the Red Stated aren't gettin 80% back, they are returned everything they send to DC plus additional money from Blue State taxes
     
  15. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    So here comes the "blue state givers, red state takers" lie narrative again. Just as false as it has always been. Not going to bother with a full debunk.

    1. States with corporate hub cities containing lots of HQs are the tax situs for income that was actually generated across the country. Therefore, the location where income is taxed is a false indicator of states "giving and taking." A large NYC media company, for example, generates revenue from selling ads to its advertiser customers. ALL this revenue, associated salaries and other costs is taxed and accounted in NY, with only the street sales accounted and taxed at the sale situs. But the selling of goods was to a national market, so without lots of balancing, claiming that New York paid all those taxes is dishonest. It's that simple. In order to be remotely accurate, any comparison of taxes paid by specific states versus taxes received must account interstate commerce, yet it never does. The narrative fails here absolutely and irrefutably.

    2. In a well-documented (to the point of being a given) nationwide trend for decades, many Americans spend their high income earning years in big blue cities, then their low income years retired into warmer states like Florida or Arizona. This makes a twofer for dishonest "state giver taker" narrators by falsely boosting the income taxed in states with more big city population, and making it appear that the states people retire to are somehow "takers" YET THEY ARE THE EXACT SAME PEOPLE, just working versus retired.

    3. States that have low relative city population yet high federal expenditure for parks, highways, military bases and installations and other federal expenditures THAT ALL AMERICANS ENJOY THE BENEFITS OF are penalized due to their low populations. Any analysis of "giver taker states" that does not account out national federal infrastructure that benefits the whole country as not being true "taking" is a false narrative. The "giver taker" lie narratives never do this.

    4. There are other factors such as corporate situs in states like Delaware that make it look unduly giving due to its corporate franchise tax collected in Delaware but actually from revenues all over the country.

    All of these factors must be accounted but of course never are in the "blue state giver, red state taker" lie narrative.

    So why do the public union and other branches of the gov-edu-union-contractor-grantee-trial lawyer-MSM Complex constantly push out this bogus narrative? Simple, to hide and deflect the fact that big blue cities are the primary beneficiaries of federal social programs (welfare) and are also the primary site of many social problems such as homelessness, drug abuse, etc.

    Essentially, the Complex and especially its NYC centered MSM don't want you to know that NY is the highest welfare recipient state per capita in the country, or the % of federal welfare that goes to California:

    https://www.waynedupree.com/welfare-top-10-states/

    Welfare per capita is actually a mixed bag of "red or blue" but they want to LIE and fool you into believing otherwise. Is it working? Did they fool you?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  16. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    Why is it nearly every time one posts facts some conservative returns with something from a right wing blogger, in this case a right wing conspiracy blogger, they believe invalidates the intial topic post?

    First off, we are talking personal income tax here, not the tax a Corporation sends to DC, and secondly, the OBG arguement is beautiful, like even if accurate, which it isn't, it didn't start last week

    And then we move into parks and highways, which by the way New York has the largest public park in the country consuming nearly a third of the State, and I got to say can't believe a whole lot of people enjoying some highway spread across Mississippi. Military funding comes from the Pentagon, not State subsides, and plenty of small population States aren't subsidized by Blue States. The funding returned includes Federal social services costs

    Now tell us about the "full debunk"
     
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  17. Libby

    Libby Well-Known Member

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    Trying to argue these things on a state level is a fool's errand. There are no entirely "blue" or entirely "red" states. If you dig deeper, it is always certain cities (and areas within cities) which bring down states, and those cities (or areas within cities) upon closer examination tend to be "blue" and/or minority.

    If anyone wanted to have an honest discussion, they would talk about cities (or areas within cities), and then if they could handle the truth they could examine the various demographic makeups of those places. But the people pushing the red state / blue state narrative don't usually want to be face to face with the reality that the poorest areas tend to have a higher than average percentage of blacks and Democrats. That truth doesn't quite fit with their false narrative of "red states bad".
     
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  18. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    I believe part of the rational is DC cannot levy property tax on the Federal Government's buildings and property that occupy a good portion of DC, yet DC provides roads, police, etc. that enable the use of these Federal buildings.
     
  19. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    1. Why is it that you and so many posters here can't seem to parse out that the underlying sources of data are different than the places citing them? It is census data, that blog, which I've never seen before, was just the first link I pulled up that contained links to a source that links to CENSUS DATA.
    2. Why is it that you get to cite to LW Newsday, calling that "facts" and then complain about the above? Hypocrite much?

    1. You made the above up, just fabricated it, not surprised. Your own source includes business income taxes. (emphasis added)

    "Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli, in a 35-page report released Wednesday, found New York residents and businesses sent nearly $250 billion to Washington in income tax payments, Social Security tax, unemployment insurance tax and other payments in the fiscal year ended September 2017."

    Did you even read your own source?

    2. But I was talking mostly about personal income taxes and not business income taxes, though the latter are also a factor. Those big city corporate HQs are full of executives who make lots of money in salary/benes compared to line employees, are taxed on that money, spend it in the community, which multiplies out into ever more spending and income taxes paid... but the actual revenue came from interstate commerce, not as much local. The Swiffer mops were sold all across the country. No problem with this state of affairs until people try to craft defective, deflective, ignorant lie narratives out of it towards resentment propaganda. Any "giver taker" narrative that doesn't account this plain fact of interstate commerce in the U.S. is a lie narrative intended to deceive.

    3. No idea what you are trying to phrase with the "OBG" argument, but it is not responsive to my post.

    Non responsive. Lower population states with higher incidence of federal national infrastructure that benefits everyone are penalized by the bogus lie narratives on "giver/taker states."

    No need really, your thread is toast, based on a faulty, oft repeated public union lie narrative intended to deflect and conceal the extremely high incidence of actual welfare and other federal taxpayer borne costs in big blue cities in NY and Ca.

    And as @Libby points out above, narratives based on whole states, other than with respect to broad fiscal health, are almost always bogus. City-based stats would be just a -start- towards tax "givers and takers." This narrative is as stupid as the "most/least educated" states narrative repeatedly posted here and elsewhere by LW trolls. "Red and Blue" in a country where only a few percentage points separate voting, are useful shorthand for ELECTION RESULTS ONLY (or state by state comparisons of general fiscal health), and narratives based on "Red Blue" states fall apart like toilet paper in the rain when stretched to other inapt comparisons.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  20. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    We’d rather have local control over our money.

    Just cut Washington’s budget and power in half. That should reduce the burden on the blue states. But I forgot ... it’s the blue states that want a bloated federal government.
     
  21. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    Red states hate Washington. It’s not us who want an all-powerful capital.
     
  22. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. I get the point. It's a stupid argument. Either you want to give the government your money or you don't. You can't demand that you pay higher taxes to support society, and then complain when it gets spent in ways that support society. What's more, as I pointed out, you're looking at numbers from 5 miles up. Just because money enters a state, that doesn't mean it only directly benefits the state's residents. Tax dollars spent in some states reap benefits in others.
     
  23. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    That is your argument, not liberals, but feel free to continue your false narrative.
     
  24. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It has been repeatedly stated that the so called correct narrative is that the people who are against redistribution are typically the people who receive the most.

    Why is that a problem? Why is that something that needs a thread?

    It's because my narrative is true. Liberals are butt-hurt that the people they think they are helping aren't appreciative of that help. It's the liberals sticking their nose in the air and complaining that the low people don't know what's good for them.
     
  25. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    FYI, I worked at ft Monmouth NJ for over 20 yrs before they closed the base. Their is a very small base right by the George Washington bridge, and there is a multi service base, ft dix, McGuire air Force, and Lakehurst naval Base.
     

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