No Planers - Suicide To 9/11 Discussion

Discussion in '9/11' started by Adam Fitzgerald, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Adam Fitzgerald

    Adam Fitzgerald Active Member

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    I posted the basics, you objected to it. Your objections were based on your opinions and not on contradictory evidence. Hijackings took place, thats a fact. The planes crashed into WTC, Pentagon and Shanksville, thats a fact. When i said im far ahead, i mean from the historical standpoint of 9/11....pre 9/11.
     
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  2. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    I asked YOU if YOU have any significant questions or contradictions with respect to the OCT, don't project and try to make it about me. I question the entire OCT from start to finish because of contradictory, unsupported and missing evidence, tons of it, but that has nothing to do with YOUR position.

    Thanks for confirming exactly what I said once again. You parrot the OCT and defend it as if it's fact and that is a FACT. So please quit saying you're a 9/11 "skeptic", that is a dishonest and deceptive attempt to categorize your position on the official 9/11 narrative.
     
  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All I know for certain is that the corporate and political elite of the world gained far too much as a result of 9/11 to not have had a hand in bringing it about. And I am certain it will be proven, just not so certain that it will be proven soon enough to matter.
     
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  4. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    It's already been proven by the fact that they did absolutely nothing to prevent 9/11 or stop it once it was underway despite knowing full well it was going to take place well ahead of time. They also did everything in their power to insure that the entire air defense system in the northeastern corridor of the US was left impotent by staging 12 war games on 9/11. That's IF that was their only crime, complicity to terrorism and mass murder.

    9/11 Family Member Patty Casazza: Government Knew Exact Date and Exact Targets



    http://911truth.org/911-family-member-patty-casazza-government-knew-exact-date-and-exact-targets/

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/11/cia-directors-documentary-911-bush-213353

    Then they did everything they possibly could to cover up their crime following 9/11 and committed war crimes and other human rights atrocities under pretext of 9/11 for $$$profit$$$ and power.
     
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  5. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    You cannot prove a single claim you've made in that post. Neither can the government. You offer deception here, nothing more.

    The government's own commission noted 60+ times that "we found no evidence" to support various elements of the narrative.
     
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  6. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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    you're falling back on this again??? ... how many times have I shown here how that one phrase has been taken out of context by troofers? ... please don't try to spin your bullshit on me ... what various elements are absent of evidence? ...
     
  7. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Read it yourself if you're curious, which is highly unlikely.

    Those 60+ statements combined with the statements of others that the commission was set up to fail make it clear that this commission's purpose was virtually the same as the purpose of the Warren Commission--to protect the guilty parties while giving the gullible masses something to sink their teeth into.
     
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  8. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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    doing it again I see ... you are purposely trying to mislead readers on these catch phrases without providing the context of what was actually said ... sack up and show us the videos or transcripts regarding the context ... quit being a weasel ...
     
  9. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah these phrases are very catchy, misleading and out of context:

    26. The 9/11 Commission co-chairs admitted they were set up to fail, starved of funds, denied access to the truth, misled by senior officials in the Pentagon and the FAA, did not examine key evidence, claimed the report was incomplete and flawed and that many questions remain unanswered.

    So you should be able to provide the actual context of all the above, right Shiner? C'mon quit being a weasel, sack up and provide the actual context of what was actually said.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
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  10. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I appreciate the note about context, and yes, it's important.

    That said, I speak English and so do you, and I've seen Hamilton and Kean make those statements, and I know what "we were set up to fail" means. I'm guessing you do too.

    Mislead readers? I'm merely pointing out the historical record.

    Get your old Air Force manual out Shine, and tell us WTF "we were set up to fail" means in your world. Please, provide the context for what they said it and when.
     
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  11. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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    sure ... sounds like they are talking about space beams not being investigated ... how many times do I have to tell you tools that they are talking about intelligence failures? ...
     
  12. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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  13. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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  14. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    26. The 9/11 Commission co-chairs admitted they were set up to fail, starved of funds, denied access to the truth, misled by senior officials in the Pentagon and the FAA, did not examine key evidence, claimed the report was incomplete and flawed and that many questions remain unanswered.

    Talk about tools, when are you going to provide the context for the above that differs from the actual context Shiner instead of phony apologist diversions?
     
  15. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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  16. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Hey Bob, they said that did they? So, let's just for the sake of argument concede he is talking about their investigation. He isn't, exclusively, but ok. So you believe what he says. This was also said:

    "Mr Kean, a Republican, spoke of a failure "of policy management, capability and above all imagination; on that September day we were unprepared. We did not grasp the magnitude of a threat that had been gathering over a considerable period of time."

    He conceded that the 10 commissioners had "the benefit of hindsight" that the hijackers "were flexible and resourceful" and it could not be known "whether any single step or series of steps would have defeated them".

    But he said none of the counter-terrorism measures adopted before the attacks disturbed or delayed the progress of the al-Qa'eda plot."

    And of course, you don't believe that bit huh?

    That's the major difference between you and reality. You interpret his complaint to mean a bullshit conspiracy rather than an attempt by the government and security services to gloss over its gross incompetency. You selectively believe part of what he says and disregard everything they conclude because it doesn't fit with your notions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  17. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Yes and much more. One former member also said this:

    9. Sen. Max Cleland resigned as a result of #7 (see below), labeling the 9/11 investigation a scam and obstruction.

    7. The 9/11 Commission cut a deal with the Bush administration essentially allowing them to dictate who on the 9/11 Commission could see what evidence and also limited the evidence the 9/11 Commission had access to.


    It's not just about what they said, the 9/11 Commission was a scam from start to finish. It was designed to coverup the massive crime that was 9/11 and was not an investigation by any universally accepted standard for a criminal investigation, never mind one of the magnitude of 9/11. What the Commissioners said is also embodied in the 9/11 Commission Report itself where they published a disclaimer for 2 entire chapters (Chapters 5 and 7) at page 146 and admitted their DELIBERATE failure to investigate:

    21. The 9/11 Commission claimed in their report that "their aim has not been to assign individual blame", thus making a mockery of the "investigation".

    25. The 9/11 Commission failed to investigate key events and issues, such as the destruction of WTC7 (unmentioned) and the financing of 9/11, deeming it of "little practical significance" (in direct contradiction to all criminal investigation standards).


    Reality is that I have nothing to do with 9/11 or the 9/11 Commission or their report. These "investigation" scams (including NIST) stand on their own recorded history (i.e. FACT and REALITY) as massive criminal scams. What YOU personally make of the 9/11 Commission, their report and quotes from their members is irrelevant to me as is your assessment of me. I have zero interest in your apologist position other than what I can use from it to expose the FACTS about 9/11 and its aftermath.
     
  18. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Well-Known Member

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    Bob,

    You ignore the facts under the crazy umbrella of "we don't have them all" and the alternate tin foil hat covering "the ones we have" don't fit in with your preconceived notions.

    Never in your jumbled up thinking does the concept appear, of an incompetent government covering their asses. In your world, foul ups and dodgy dealings equate to evidence-free claims of no planes and a whole myriad of equally absurd hogwash.

    If you ever managed to expose a fact under your own steam, two alternatives would occur. If it contradicted your poorly thought out claims you would dismiss it, if it complimented them you would make lots of noise about it.
     
  19. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Active Member

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    I too share the same sentiment. Elements within the CIA, including I believe George Tenet, knew of Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar living and training in the US for over 16 months prior to these attacks. They did not tell the FBI, they did not tell the White House, not even the POTUS or his senior staff. Personally I believe the CIA were using Saudi Intelligence officers to recruit these two into becoming informants inside al-Qaeda, and that they thought it had worked until it was too late. Is there evidence for this? Not really. There are a set of facts that we know are true, and we're trying to piece these together to have them make sense.

    Unfortunately this could be the real conspiracy that could have actually been something legitimate. But the 9/11 'truthers' filled up the internet with so much nonsense of no planes and controlled demolitions that everyone else just ignored it all. So now no one is interested. Ironically, 9/11 'truthers' actually helped the CIA get away with covering it up. Well done guys, well done.

    Yeah because **** nuance right? You're either with us or against us, right? There's no middle ground, no crossing over, you're either a full fledged conspiracy believer following them all, or you're a government obeying official story drone?

    That's the problem with you americans these days, you're so full of being totally to one side or the other. I see it every day in your political news and street protest videos coming out of the US. You can't stand people who support ideas of both sides. Your way of believing things makes you turn anything into a religious like cult.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  20. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    That would be the same thing (more or less). If you're a government obeying official story drone then you're a full fledged official conspiracy believer following it all.

    That's a characteristic of the human race in general, not just Americans.
     
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  21. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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  22. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    No its not a fact.
    No its not a fact.

    its the accepted 'story' line by the officials nothing more.
    lots of people think the holocaust is a fact, because its the accepted story line by officials,.......at least till they do a little research and find out they have been screwed and bilked out of trillions of dollars.
    So whats the point in posting that?
    Its not only speed, its also dependent on the mass and stiffness of the projectile.
    For instance its impossible to propel a mosquito fast enough to dent a ping pong paddle.

    What I have always found humorous is the oct cheerleaders because their education doesnt reach far enough to calculate and realize that a plane wing is not going to slice through, if IIRC 115kip 14" column at the wingtips. All I ever see is high school kids never cracked a physics book in their life gaslighting the the threads.

    Birds do this:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    birds in the cockpit
    [​IMG]

    Finally the horsepower requirements goes off the charts, there is no way any of those planes could have actually flew the speed claimed.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    As a side note its a well known fact and mathematically impossible for any jet to fly the same or greater speeds on the deck as their design cruise speeds or even top speed.

    On 911 the magical mythical super-planes designed to mow down tall building with a single pass, perform hairpin turns better than computer graphics, it was a truly amazing day, the day the guv rewrote and turned physics upside down. Fck newton!

    BTW water jet cutters have micro abrasives mixed with the water.

    Im not really too much into the 911 gig anymore other than to check up on the latest news thanks to Bob.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
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  23. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    What's your explanation for this then?
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-they-are-on-the-moon.580330/#post-1072162665
    https://www.google.com/search?q=sou...agB&bih=657&biw=1366&rlz=1C1AWFC_enES882ES884


    Watch it in slow-motion at the 3:10 time mark of this video.

    Was the 9/11 Attack the 2001 Version of "Operation Northwoods"?



    The planes hit the beams and later we see broken beams toward the wing tips. If a ping-pong ball can go through an aluminum can, this is worth testing. I suppose it could be figured out with math but it would take an engineer to do it.
     
  24. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Simple effects for simple minds. Frankly hollywood was doing far better effects at that time than they did on the planes, but then hollywood had time to make them look real.
    Not really, look up the brazillian jet that had its wing sliced off by a gulfstream winglet, wings are very fragile.
    I did that once and commented on how MIT 1) raised the speed of the aircraft, and 2) calculated the average to fake nonengineers out so they did not have to account for the wingtips which are impossible to cut through the steel at any speed under any conditions that are possible for the plane to actually go.

    They sold you wooden nickels.
     
  25. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    What broke the steel beams then? They are broken in the same places where the wings hit them.
     

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