Non-binary gender identities

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by Ritter, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    One of many newly manufractured phenomenons of modernity is that of non-binary gender identities; individuals who claim they fall outside the biological, dichotomy of man and woman, not identifying or feeling at home in any of the two genders.

    Personally, I find it very hard to grasp this matter and the only answer you can find on various transgender forums, blogs and whatnot is that these individuals are to be seen as "other", something I see as a "non-answer" and something that needs a more thorrow clarification imo.

    To discuss:
    Exactly on what dimension of gender identity do these individuals find themselves?
    Is it really possible for "outsiders" to understad this phenomenon at all?
    Can one really be neither male nor female?
    How many gender identities are there today according to academia and is it possible to even fall outside- and not identify with any of these?

    I am genuinely curious about the matter and not at all striving to troll, mock, belittle or ridicule anyone.
     
  2. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It’s not an entirely new concept. There are various examples of different gender divisions or individuals being recognised as something other than male or female in various places throughout history.

    It seems to vary greatly. I think there are lots of different people in all sorts of different situations who tend to get lumped in to this topic or actively seek out this kind of “community” because their individual circumstances isolates them from any other.

    I doubt it but I think that’s true of any strong emotional/psychological feelings we each have. Religion, music tastes, food preference, sexual fetishes – there are all sorts of things that one person might feel very strongly about that others will find entirely irrational. Maybe we need more trust in people that when they say they feel a particular way they really do, however difficult that feeling is for us to understand.

    Physiologically that is certainly possible so I see no reason to assume it isn’t possible psychologically too. There are various characteristics that might be used to define gender and many of them can develop in non-binary or inconstant ways.

    Too many IMO. Again, I think this issue is that lots of people have individual situations that they will struggle to come to terms with themselves, let alone for other people. Trying to categorise and label this kind of thing is a normal human thing to do but I’m not convinced it’s always that beneficial. Even beyond this specific topic, I think a lot of us would benefit from seeing ourselves and others more as individuals within the general group of “humans” rather than trying to divide and categorise everyone, which tend to all end us as “us” and “them”.
     
  3. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    They're just damaged people. Nothing to worry or think about unless you're a friend or relative.
     
  4. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    No, someone cannot be "non binary." Sex is biological and it is binary. One can identify as anything they want it doesn't make it a sex.

    Everybody is either male or female. There are a small number of intersex people that are both male and female but they are still binary.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think they just want to have a minority identity.
     
  5. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Homosexuality and transgenderism - most likely - derrives from an imbalance of chemicals (E and T, mainly) in the brain - They do not get enough of them in the womb.

    Exactly what causes one to identify as non-binary, however, I am not sure. Certainly, gender is a dichotomy; Do I can understand transgenderism. At least they claim to fall within the biological spectrum of two genders, just the opposite of what they were born as. But, non-binarism comes out as rather random to me. Probably these individuals also lack chemicals and hormones and maybe some of them just want attention. I don't know.

    I saw this clip on YouTube of some girl saying she was a "non-binary transperson" (wtf?); Idn't that an oxymoron? :confusion:
     
  6. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    It is new for West and the division of male-female is almost entirely universal. Sure, there are certain communities where people sometimes can lose their gender identity as a result of spirituality and other religious beliefs and other communities may have a little different way of categorising gender. True.

    However, nowhere does anything close to "non-binarism" exist. Pretty much all cultures have fixed gender identities (for obvious reasons) and although tnere , for example, are certain Native American tribes who categorise gender into male, female, masculine and feminine, it is not even remotely comparable to the concept of non-binarism.

    "Non-binarism" translated into the example of the Natives communities above, would be "non-quaternary" and that just does not happen. Ever!

    There are aspects of identity that are fluid and very complex. Neither gender nor sexuality belongs to these complex aspects of identity. It is simple, either you are male or female. You cannot fall out of that spectrum. Often is their community ridiculed and mocked by people who say stuff like "I identify as an Apple computer". I think that kind of mockery puts things into perspective exellently. :)

    Some people are born with both genitalias (hermaphrodites), but that is about as far as it goes. I am sure most of the non-binaries out there were not born as such.
     
  7. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I really don't think there is anything wrong with them thay they can't help. I think they just want to be unique and it's too difficult to do so through expression.
     
  8. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Just received my January issue of National Geographic and it had a cute little transgender boy/girl on the cover. I figured fine I'll skip that and read the rest. Turned out the entire issue was about "gender indentity". Straight to the recycling bin it went.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The location and numbers elsewhere aren't really the point. I was just challenging the idea that this entire concept has been recently manufactured. The manner in which these kind of things are recognised, categorised and accepted (or not) certainly change but the underlying elements can be seen throughout world history.

    For a start, we're not talking about sexuality - that's an entirely separate topic.

    Given that you recognise that all sorts of aspects of people can vary in complex ways, on what basis do you declare that gender is a special exception? Why wouldn't gender have variation and complexity just like everything else?

    Again, on what basis do you make such a definitive assertion?
     
  10. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    IMO, it is part of the disneyesque indoctrination. It is a fantasy that you can 'be whatever you want to be'. That is fine as a motivational concept to make something of yourself, or pursue a dream, but if it does not take reality as a factor, it is delusion. It is no different that someone who believes themselves to be Napoleon. It is childhood make believe, that has not grown up & faced reality.

    Unfortunately, our entire educational system has fostered this lunacy.. trapping generations of impressionable young people in the confusion of puberty. They won't allow them to grow up & face reality & their own limitations, but enable & even encourage adolescent confusion as an end in itself.
     
  11. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Because gender is entirely tied to nature and has nothing to do with culture. What one culture ascribes to- and associates with the two genders varies from place to place. Individuals also live out their manhood/womanhood in different ways. It still remains a binary though.

    "Are you a member at Political Forum?"
    "Moo!"
    "What is that? Yes or no?"
    "''Yes or no'? That is such a simplistic and dualistic worldview! I fall outside the binary of yes and no!"

    Nature. You are either born as male or female. You might be born with lack of hormone that makes you a tranny, but you can never be "nom-binary". It just does not make any sense.
     
  12. Njoror

    Njoror Banned

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    Hope you cancelled your subscription too.

    I used to spend thousands of dollars every year at Target stores but since they caved to the transgender fascism I haven't spent a dime there. I actually call them up at least once a month to let their customer relations know this too.
     
  13. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Public education is basically a sinking ship in a cesspool. But I think that is our fault. Those of us that have sense enough to understand this non-binary gender garbage is total malarkey have been too frightened to stand up and say no. I see it everywhere. We even have a term for it in the professional world. H.R.

    What is absurd today will be brilliant tomorrow. We literally have communist street gangs destroying property in our streets because we are a democracy. This can be stopped, but they are going to call you names, attack you at the very core of your beliefs, and no target is off limits. There is no level they will not sink to. What is at stake? What do you have to lose by standing up to this? What do you have to gain? If the gain isn't worth the loss our nation is over.

    It really breaks my heart that people are so easily bullied into not standing up for what they believe in. Just 240 years ago men risked their very lives for the promise of freedom.
     
  14. SvenO100

    SvenO100 Member

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    All these special snowflakes are a real cancer on the world. We have social justice warriors, these people who believe in different genders, students that need safe spaces because they cannot deal with anyone that has a different opinion. What has happened to this world? Earlier today I had a conversation with a transgender person whom told a story about how a transgender slept with someone and did not say that they had a sex change operation until after the act. Another user replied that he would be pissed off and would want to "break his neck." The responses to that were "How transphobic" and "I am shocked." or "How horrible." What the hell has happened to people.

    Transgenders should be allowed to live a happy life without harrassment. Despite that however, I and any other person would still be pissed if you hide the fact that you're transgender to sleep with someone. Also, if someone does not want to date a woman that was formely a man, that is completely normal. That is not Transphobic. Do not call people that, you are hurting your own cause. If you start to label people and make them out for something that they are not, all you do is make them angry and create hate against you whilst those people may not have had a problem with you before. All of this nonesense really annoys me, these kinds of people need serious medical help with their dillusions.
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    One of the very real problems facing all these transgender people, and one which I believe few are considering prior to 'treatment', is the lack of romantic/sexual partners they will invariably face. The majority are going to grow old and die alone, perhaps NEVER having another partner again. The reasons are screamingly obvious, but the deep narcissism of these individuals convinces them they'll be real females (or males) in the eyes of the vast majority of 'cis gendered' people. News flash, they won't. When 90%+ of humanity will not touch you - gay or straight - you're pretty much (*)(*)(*)(*)ed.

    Really, trans people have no business whatsoever seeking mates in the straight world. My gay friends tell me the same applies to their world - they won't touch trans people. Lesbians don't like female to male trans, and also don't like male to females. That leaves ... trans people. They should ONLY be seeking mates among their own. The attempt to do otherwise will get many killed, at worst. Emotionally damaged and lonely, at best.
     
  16. SvenO100

    SvenO100 Member

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    I have to disagree with you there, they are still people. They have the right to seek love with anyone, not just other transgender people. There are normal people whom have relationships with transgender people you know, it is not impossible. They just need to stop blaming people for not liking them or being attracted to them. Being transphobic is hating transgenders at best, it does not apply to when you are not attracted to them. They just need to understand that normal people most likely do not want to date or have sex with a transgender, that is just the way it is and they need to learn to accept it.

    I don't think that it is narcissism, they just do not understand. They see themselves as female in a male body, to them it is most likely the same as changing your clothes or getting a different haircut. Or, I don't know what to compare it too. They approach it with the attitude of "I was male, so what? I'm really a girl, my old body wasn't me. This is the real me." They can't understand the mindset that normal people have, I think. I do not know, I have not spoken to many transgender people.
     
  17. slackercruster

    slackercruster Banned

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    Op, no need to apologize for questioning queer behavior. And mentally ill / mentally confused behavior defines queers both in their life and their desire to have sex with the same gender. People are afraid to say anything nowadays. When you see something that is wrong speak up. God forbid they should question mentally ill behavior. Obama distilled in society to accept whatever people say as honest and wholesome behavior...without question.

    Here is a partial list of gender identities that the queer folk of 2017 may call themselves. We can thank Obama for creating a (*)(*)(*)(*)ed up society where anything goes. The only benefit of Obama's world is that it allowed for a 'anything goes' prez like Trump to take office and hopefully unconfuse society a little.

    Used to be they were only female and male genders...

    •Agender
    •Androgyne
    •Androgynous
    •Bigender
    •Cis
    •Cisgender
    •Cis Female
    •Cis Male
    •Cis Man
    •Cis Woman
    •Cisgender Female
    •Cisgender Male
    •Cisgender Man
    •Cisgender Woman
    •Female to Male
    •FTM
    •Gender Fluid
    •Gender Nonconforming
    •Gender Questioning
    •Gender Variant
    •Genderqueer
    •Intersex
    •Lesbian
    •Lesbian Separatist
    •Male to Female
    •Manhater
    •MTF
    •Neither
    •Neutrois
    •Non-binary
    •Other
    •Pangender
    •Queer
    •Queen
    •Trans
    •Trans*
    •Trans Female
    •Trans* Female
    •Trans Male
    •Trans* Male
    •Trans Man
    •Trans* Man
    •Trans Person
    •Trans* Person
    •Trans Woman
    •Trans* Woman
    •Transfeminine
    •Transgender
    •Transgender Female
    •Transgender Male
    •Transgender Man
    •Transgender Person
    •Transgender Woman
    •Transmasculine
    •Transsexual
    •Transsexual Female
    •Transsexual Male
    •Transsexual Man
    •Transsexual Person
    •Transsexual Woman
    •Two-Spirit

    OP, don't ask me what they all mean...I don't know. I looked up a few but forget what they mean. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Queers are never happy and queers crave attention....no doubt the queers will keep adding to the list until you need a book to list them all.

    ...thanks Obama for (*)(*)(*)(*)ing up our world!
     
  18. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    So...How come the people who accept there are these many genders refuse to accept that there are races? :laughing:
     
  19. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Read this thread or ask a question in this thread.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=456472&highlight=ask+transgender
     
  20. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    So all these words were just made in the last 8 yrs?
     
  21. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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  22. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Are they?
     
  23. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Yes, transgender requires a trans and cis position it's binary in its terminology.

    Non-binary is make believe.
     
  24. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    OK, I was thinking by binary, it's one or the other of the two options. But for one in between, it is a combination of those 2 options.
     
  25. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Non-binary is neither one nor the other. It just "is". It's not really a "middle way" either, it is something falling completely outside the spectrum of male and female and even outside that of masculine and feminine. It is basically "nothing".

    It is easy to be confused by this and that is the purpose of me starting this thread, confusion.
     

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