Obit published in the Florida Times Union. Paid $167.83 to ream the dead.

Discussion in 'Member Casual Chat' started by btthegreat, Jul 5, 2022.

  1. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Article https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...sedgntp&cvid=0ba71ec780be43d7868f820bc2334469

    The actual obituary for Lawrence Pfaff Sr. with excerpts below https://www.jacksonville.com/obituaries/pfla0245589

    "Lawrence, Sr's hobbies included abusing his first wife and children. He loved to start projects but never followed through on any of them. He enjoyed the life of a bar fly for many years and had a quaint little living space, studio, above his favorite hole in the wall, the club Nashville.

    Lawrence, Sr. did spend over 20 years in the NYPD, but even his time in service was negligent at best. Because of his alcohol addiction, his Commanding Officer took away his gun and badge, replacing them with a broom until he could get his act together....
    it will be challenging to miss Lawrence, Sr. because he was narcissistic. He was incapable of love. Lawrence, Sr.'s passing proves that evil does eventually die, and it marks a time of healing, which will allow his children to get the closure they deserve. Lawrence, Sr. can be remembered for being a father to many, and a dad to none"

    Is this the start of a trend? Will obituary columns end up with opposing editorial views of the deseased? with equal time for anyone with $167 and an agenda? what do you think of the person who wrote and paid for this and the decision to do this? Is this a truth that deserves to be told? or is it disrespectful, unnessisary and hurtful to the truly grieving?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
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  2. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    If it involves someone who was famous or somehow connected to money, there could be potential liability issues. If defaming someone reduces the value of their estate somehow...let's say in record sales or something like that, there could be liability. And maybe even for much more common situations.

    If someone wants to pay to vent over the dead, I would imagine it is irrelevant. Who cares? I guess a family or friends might be offended. But if there is money in an estate I would be damn careful.
     
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  3. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Its very very hard to defame or commit libel when the 'victim' is dead. https://www.minclaw.com/legal-resource-center/what-is-defamation/can-dead-people-defamed/ because they feel no shame, or distress they are not damaged and so damages are difficult to prove unless it is a celebrity and the estate itself can connect the specific false statements to the decline in value. That's a very tall order.
     
  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Ex wife? Estranged child?
     
  5. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    The damages would be to the family or whomever stands to benefit from the estate. It is about the money and beneficiaries, not the person who died.

    The first thing that came to mind was a performer. Bob has a following and people purchase his music online. He dies and someone defames him in a public setting. This in turn sours his fans and they stop buying his music. Bob's family now stands to lose money over what could be a biased or bogus claim.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  6. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Not all people are deserving of a 'glowing' obit. The person that pays for the obit, is welcome to publish pretty much anything they want, shy of libel and slander, I guess. Saying someone was a nasty piece of work is opinion.
     
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  7. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Well he sounds like he was a nice guy....

    For all we know are family member posted it and it does sound well deserved.
     
  8. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I have seen this kind of obit before and I don't have a problem with it.

    The reality is our society is very, very dysfunctional relative to honestly addressing and mitigating rampant abuse in every direction. As an abuse advocate and survivor, I know first hand how devastating it is to be continuously hurt/harmed and have nowhere to turn. My father was a Chicago police officer and my mother was a licensed psychologist that worked for the State. There was absolutely nowhere for me to go for help and I'm one of the "lucky" ones. Many survivors become abusers, some commit suicide (or other crimes) and some of us do what we need to do to heal and stand in the gap for the silenced victims.

    We are learning, slowly, that silence doesn't solve anything.
    Blaming and shaming victims doesn't solve anything.
    Invalidating victims doesn't solve anything.
    Ignoring victims doesn't solve anything.

    I don't know for sure, but I feel confident in making a bet that whoever coined "Don't talk ill of the dead" was either an abuser or enabler.

    Why should we go to wakes and funerals and cry and pretend the deceased person was some kind of saint when they weren't?

    Why is the onus of "keep the peace" always laid at the target's feet which further invalidates their right to have their pain?


    So, if a person is hurting and harmed and has no *real* outlet to express that, process that and heal, we, collectively, are enabling the abuser. We do this because it's easier. The abuser only requires our silence. They want us to look away and not care and that is less work than hearing their victims.

    $168 bucks is far cheaper than therapy and some kind of alcohol or drug abuse. If the guy wanted a nice send off, he probably shouldn't have been what sounds like a world class @-hole.
     
  9. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    That a lot of connecting that is very tough to do, especially with respect to 'future earnings' when Bob's earnings could simply fall, because people stop liking his repetitive, boring lyrics or move on to the newest top billboard instead because - well its newer and getting more play or because Bob isn't promoting his own work from the cemetary like he used to. And Bob could be every sleazy thing that was claimed!
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  10. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a sad, petty, and disgusting thing to do, but should be legal. Civil cases may arise from it though, for reasons others mentioned.
     
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  11. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Do you think the paper is obliged to print it or should they only print the sweet sentiments? Did the editor make the correct call?
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  12. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    I don't condemn them for printing it. But if it were my call, I wouldn't. I feel like it would diminish the respectability of my publication and would be a net negative for readers.
     
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  13. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    People can do as they like but obits in our local paper are $300/day last I heard
     
  14. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    should the newspaper accept the money and print it?
     
  15. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Let me guess- an ex who has trouble moving on?

    The worst part is that this could be 100% fiction and no one will ever have any recourse. I think this will become a 'thing', and then there'll be some sort of regulation applied to obituaries and everyone in the future will be like 'why the hell we gotta jump through these hoops to post an obituary?'
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  16. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    The person who wrote that is being eaten up with bitterness and hatred. Not good for body mind or soul. I had a relative who hated her Mother that way. She ended up with bad mental and physical health all thru her life and poisoned her kids with her hatred ...and really was not the best mother herself.
     
  17. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I think its one or more of the adult children bitching about their horrible father.
    They can ask for rebuttal time, and write their own obit full of glowing laudits. It will be the newspaper itself that will do the regulating. First amendment prohibits govt from doing it.
     
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  18. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    There are three reasons not to do this. 1. there may be loved ones around who dealing with searing grief from a very recent demise and they haven't even buried their dead. 2. The dead are less able to defend themselves against the charges or counter attack which makes it more cowardly than brave, more vindictive than healing.

    As for those who read it and assume it's true We come to 3. the newspaper editors did not 'fact check' it for veracity and with the most obvious and direct source dead, its less likely the full true will come out.

    I just read the AP update. It was a disgruntled son who wrote and claims the story. He had been writing this for over a year and it sat in a drawer waiting for the old man to die. The police dept refuses to comment on its former employee and the local paper editorial board says it regrets publishing the obit, because its content was contrary to its obituary policies, and somehow slipped through without being caught in time.

    Writing the obit may be cathartic, but printing it is wrong. Read it to your friends, or lover, or go share it at the next Al Anon meeting. If you have the guts, you can even send it to the old man before he does, and he can read what you think , but don't print it for the world to see, before the funeral but without sufficient to for someone to write the other side. That's not an effort to 'heal'. its an act of gutless revenge, on a man who can't defend himself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2022
  19. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    Newspapers can't really afford to say no these days, so yes probably so.
     
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