Ok Constitutionalists: What Is The 'Original Intent' Of The 14Th Amendment?

Discussion in 'Political Science' started by Apuzzo, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The 14th

    Just Another Amendment
    forced on the defeated CSA
    by the North
    to end reconstruction
    and gain admittance to the union


    eh?
     
  2. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    in reality to prevent the Klan from using state laws to continue oppression of freed blacks. The Klan ignored the state constitutions in the reconstruction era south and the fourteenth amendment was designed to alleviate some of this racist nonsense
     
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  3. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    The 14th Amendment means what it says.
     
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  4. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    It was designed for more than that. Three degrees and that is your answer? Tsk tsk, poor scholarship.

    The framers of that amendment did not intend on it to be limited to reconstruction. We know this from the congressional record.

    During the debates, key figures such as Representative John Bingham and Senator Jacob Howard emphasized that the amendment's provisions were meant to have a broad and lasting impact. Bingham, the principal author of Section 1, highlighted that the amendment aimed to enshrine equal protection and civil rights, ensuring that states could not infringe on the rights of any citizens. This was a direct response to the limitations of the original Constitution and aimed at providing a constitutional foundation for the Civil Rights Act of 1866

    https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/congressional-debate-on-the-14th-amendment/

    Moreover, Senator Howard, when presenting the amendment to the Senate, noted that Section Five granted Congress the authority to enforce the amendment's provisions through appropriate legislation. This broad enforcement power was intended to address not just immediate post-war issues but to serve as a lasting mechanism for protecting civil rights against state encroachment
     
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  5. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    that was a brief description. I don;t use AI to write answers either. I also don't need a government to take care of me. You are not contradicting anything I said and as usual, you used hundreds of words to say what I did in a few
     
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  6. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    I didnt say that it was limited. I said what was going on at the time

     
  7. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    "You don't use AI to write for you'. You are suggesting that, for writing that doesn't depend on authorship, copyright, that doing so is wrong.

    If you truly believe that, then I'll expect you to walk everywhere in life, Avoid bicycles, cars, motorcycles, etc., Because you are claiming that modern inventions are inappropriate to aid in making life easier.

    That is the logic you are using.

    Your point only has merit where authorship is important, because that relates to copyright. The use of AI, in my view, becomes more critical in works of art, such as books, music, paintings, etc., because Title 17 of the US Copyright law requires 'authorship' ,and that requires human that does the creating, not a machine. As a lawyer, you should know this.

    For these internet posts, authorship is unimportant. No one is claiming copyright in our posts, the concept of 'authorship' is moot.

    I mean, technicality it does, (unless the TOS requires us to waive it), internet posts are technically 'copyrighted', but is anyone seriously claiming it? For practical reality, no one really is. IF someone misquotes you,. what, you are going to sue?

    So, if someone uses AI to aid them in a post, as a practical matter, it is no different than you using a car to drive somewhere, instead of walking. Since no one is really claiming copyright in an internet post, and using AI waives copyright, what difference does it make? It really doesn't make a difference, if all that truly matters is the argument in words in front of you. Either you can counter argue a point made, or you can't. That's all that really matters in an internet debate forum.

    You said very little in a 'few' as 'in a few' suggests, i.e, very little.

    Your premise is, therefore, without merit.

    And, if 'few words' were all that were necessary, contracts, books, movies, documentaries, studies, treatises, blogs, court rulings, all of which contain far more than a 'few words' because life is nuanced, suggesting that there is more between heaven and earth than exists in your debate philosophy, then all of those things would be far more terse than they are. But, life isn't like that, and more words than your capacity to digest them are often required.

    Now, if I rewrote the above this way: Life requires, often, more words. Essentially says the same thing, but does it?

    The underlying message is the same, but 'qualification and context' is missing, which is often the difference between accuracy and inaccuracy. Using a color metaphor: the portrait is the difference between using Red, Green, and Blue solely to paint a picture, and Cadmium, Magenta, Cyan, Umber, Thalo, Indigo, Sienna, etc., etc., the latter of which are ,more true to the colors of life, the former the colors used in coloring books and you are arguing, 'say, because you are not using coloring book colors, your argument is wrong'? That's an amazing argument, especially coming from someone with all that education.

    If you can't handle life, nuanced as it is, and are unable to recognize the fallacy of your reasoning, how can you be correct about anything in life?

    If your response is 'that's too many words'...

    Someone once told Mozart he wrote 'too many notes', his response was something like, 'if I removed even one note, it would hinder the melody'. A simpleton can't handle the notes, but a composer knows the precise number of notes to convey the symphony. Take Bach's 'Jesu, Joy Of Man's Desiring', it has many notes, but if you removed even one note, it would impair the melody.

    The point is this: IF you can't hear the music, that's your problem, not mine. Symphonies are not intended for those weaned on banjo music. One isn't claiming to be better than the other, only richer. For some, richness is better, is important, for others, not so much. I don't write for the not so much crowd. If that be you, then ignore my comments.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2024
  8. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    "you don't need government to take care of you'.

    so don't let government take care of you.

    Sheesh, what a useless point.
     
  9. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    so useless you responded to it TWICE

    Ok
     
  10. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Only because I forgot to mention that point, in the first.

    Besides, indicating that something is useless doesn't prove it is useful, no more than indicating someone
    committed murder cures the murder.
     
  11. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    that makes no sense
     
  12. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    The 14th granted the Reconstruction govts. the power to loot southern states and get blacks to vote for crooks, which was all it was designed for in practice; the radical carpetbaggers knew they were never going to get white votes.

    The plan was to keep blacks in the South and control their votes. Some 90% of 'freed' blacks, those who survived the contraband camps set up to keep 'free' black people from flooding the northern states, remained in the South after the war, not being welcome anywhere north of the Mason-Dixon line, except as scabs for big industrialists to break strikes with. It's marketed as some great northern achievement of 'Freedom' but in practice it was merely another cover for corruption and election rigging.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2024
  13. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    eh

    + Yes
     
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    The northern states who controlled the federal government were worried that the Southern states would apply special laws to negroes that would not respect their rights, or that the existing laws would be selectively enforced so that the rights of negroes would not be respected.

    We should not get too confused by the word "rights", because progressives on the Left later drastically expanded the meaning of that concept. (Even to the point of practically changing the meaning of "civil rights" in modern day usage)

    The main worry was the issue of slavery. And indeed, many of the Southern states actually were able to figure out a way to perpetuate slavery on a smaller scale well after the Emancipation of the negro race, while the rest of the country turned away.

    By any other name, How slavery in America continued up until 1943
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2024
  15. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Northern states did exactly that themselves, and in fact Lincoln's own state as well other mid-western states passed Black Codes that made it impossible for black people to make a legal living in the early 1850's and in 1857. About 90% of 'freed' black people remained in the South after the Civil War, those that survived the contraband camps set up to keep them from migrating north; the 'great Migration' didn't happen until the early 1900's, as a response to union organizing and a need for strike breakers and scabs.

    Even during the Civil Rights era many states outside the South got to keep their literacy tests and other methods of keeping blacks from voting. Harlem had black voter turnouts no better than Mississippi's, but the laws were only selectively enforced against a few states; the Acts would never have passed if they were enforced outside a few states; they didn't become law across all 50 states until Nixon forced it.

    https://www.justice.gov/crt/about-section-5-voting-rights-act

    Best history of the era re govt. is this one:

    https://www.commentary.org/articles/murray-friedman-2/the-civil-rights-era-by-hugh-davis-graham/

    It is ironic that as redistributive approaches to social inequality are in retreat all over the world, they continue to remain strong in the United States. Sadder still is that these approaches continue to be pursued in the face of conclusive evidence that (as critics on the Left like William Julius Wilson and on the Right like Glenn Loury have noted) they benefit only the black middle class, while leaving the black underclass, in Hugh Graham’s words, “further isolated and decaying.” In illuminating the political processes by which we have arrived at this perversion of both justice and common sense, Graham has performed a signal intellectual service.

    The black middle class fled to the Burbs to live among whites, and do pretty much nothing but exploit black poverty to line their own pockets.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2024
  16. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not really.
    found this old thread that might explain to you: diversity and changing attitudes towards helping others
     
  17. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh, you're unable to make the connection in your mind?

    I was saying it was not ironic, and was giving you an explanation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2024
  19. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Didn't address anything I was referring to. It was a quote of someone.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2024

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