One Conspiracy Theory to Bind Them All...........

Lol, it's all connected if you know who the players are and the real story behind the history we are taught. Another addled conspiracy theory? Maybe but if you really start to investigate some of the information out there, it is harder to dismiss than you may think.

From the explosion of the Maine in Havana harbour which kicked off the Spanish American war:

"The fate of the Maine comes to this: Did a mine start the war, or did an accident?" said Thomas B. Allen, author of the National Geographic article and moderator of yesterday's panel. "If it was an accident, then the war shouldn't have happened."

For the last two decades, most historians have accepted a 1976 study commissioned by Adm. Hyman Rickover that found no evidence of a mine and concluded the Maine was sunk by an internal explosion, most likely a fire in a coal bunker that ignited a nearby store of ammunition.

National Geographic in its February issue published the results of a study it had commissioned into the sinking.

Under a headline declaring, "New Interpretation Throws Open the Question of Cause," a report on the study said that computerized technology unavailable to earlier investigators revealed that the explosion could have been caused by either a mine or an accidental fire.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...067349c/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.af935e8766fb

.....to the sinking of the Lusitania which kicked of American participation in WW1 after the great majority of the population had been strictly isolationist before the war. The creation of the Committee for Public Information under Bernays and Creel instituted after the Lusitania was the first modern use of industrial public relations propaganda in order to sell war to a reluctant population whose elite business interests were determined to protect investment in the industrial capacity of Britain and France.

https://ijoc.org/index.php/ijoc/article/viewFile/1955/907

Later Bernays would be instrumental in whitewashing the United Fruit/CIA coup that overthrew Arbenz Guzman in Guatemala and replaced him with a military dictatorship loyal to the US corporate interests.

Then their was the well-documented false-flag operation in the Gulf of Tonkin that was used as an excuse to escalate the Vietnam war:

https://www.usni.org/magazines/navalhistory/2008-02/truth-about-tonkin

Given what we know about these well documented false flag and dispensed misleading information with the purpose to influence public opinion, what does this tell us about some of the conspiracy theories flittering around the internet today and the truth about our past deep history.

Keep in mind, it only takes two people plotting something to have the definition of a conspiracy.

Also keep in mind that the term, "conspiracy theory" arose in the 60's as a meme to mock and discredit investigations that went off the rails by Garrison and others into the assassination of JFK.

Some conspiracy theories are absurd and can largely be dismissed - but not all. Some of the more persistent theories have a many unanswered questions and obvious cover-ups of something behind them. To dismiss them all is really to bury ones head in the sand and pretend that key information doesn't exist.

Be it resolved, that if you start to understand some of the players and their motives, incidents where we know the government lied in order to achieve an end in the past can tell us a lot about how the government operates today.

Anyone interested in debating or discussing this?

 

Let's start with the assassination of President Kennedy. Despite efforts of a host of scoffers and wannabe debunkers like Vincent Bugliosi, who never missed a chance to grandstand for the cameras, the Warren Commission finding are simply impossible and the House Select Committee on Assassinations established in '76 came to the same conclusion.

Bugliosi took evidence such as the deeply flawed and unprofessionally botched autopsy drawings from Bethesda and turned these into bullet trajectories to back up an erroneous conclusion in support of Warren's findings.

In fact, with close examination of actual evidence from the scene it is easy to prove the Warren Commission finding are impossible.

So, how does JFK's murder fit in with the larger theme of "One Conspiracy to Bind them All?

To explore this, one needs to understand all the powerful figures embedded in the military/industrial/corporate/intelligence complex that Kennedy and his brother managed to piss off is their short time in power.

Understanding Kennedy's many enemies in the American establishment sheds interesting light on that moment of history and on many of the other various political and financial scandals that followed right up to the present time.

 

I've never bought into the idea that there is one grand conspiracy that all the others are a part of.

I think some might be connected but most are simply their own event.

For instance, the Kennedy assassination was isolated, it was carried about by his fired head of the CIA for revenge.

 

Well, you are certainly on to something here. There is no question that Dulles is one of the most sinister figures in the first part of this story and a key figure in many of the darkest CIA ops during the 50's and 60's and even before.

No accident he was a key figure on the Warren Commission or a partner in the firm that represented United Fruit.

I understand your being sceptical that JFK is more than an single isolated incident but once you delve deeper, it is much more difficult to just dismiss everything as coincidence.

Coincidence theory as some call it...lol.

Forinstance, why did Nixon refer to the assassination as that Bay of Pigs thing and be willing to pay big bucks to shut people up?

 

The Bay of Pigs was Eisenhower's plan, not JFK's.

It was already in motion when JFK took office and there was little he could do to stop it.

But look at all the other conspiracies such as aliens and UFO's, ghosts, entities like HAARP and DARPA, I don't see the JFK assassination tying into any of them.

Do you?

 

It was actually Dulles plan and you are right that Kennedy only became aware of it early after he came to office.

He had to decide whether it would cause more of a sh#t storm to cancel or go ahead. Finally he let it go as long as the operatives kept American involvement hidden. Didn't happen. The whole thing blew open and things happened that can never be forgiven.

The rest is history as you say.

I am not trying to address the more out there theories you have mentioned.

Aliens are a different subject all together.

What I am trying to tie into are connections from JFK that lead directly to some of the big scandals of the 70's eighties- to BCCI, Savings and loansIran/Contra and beyond.

What the frick was a CIA pro like Howard Hunt doing in a two bit amatuer operation like Watergate and why was Nixon so willing to pay him off?

 

They may be connected but in my experience you should find that connection first than identify the conspiracies that lead to it.

Not look for a bunch of conspiracies then tie them look for a larger one to tie them into.

Right now you are searching for something that may not exist, almost inventing it up as you go along.

If they do tie into a larger conspiracy we already are aware of what it is so that should be your starting point.

For example the Bilderberg group is an organization that many believe secretly run the world from the shadows and these would all fit in nicely with a plan they hatched during this period when they may have thought their power was threatened in some way.

You could also point to the Freemasons and the conspiracy behind all of this since they have their little hands into almost everything in America and are reportedly very powerful.

Then there is the US government themselves with possibly a military and intelligence faction conducting these things for purposes unknown. It wouldn't be the first time the US government has done secret things behind the scenes to affect national outcomes. You could even make this about the Civil Rights movement if you were so inclined.

Plenty of research out there if this is something you'd like to research.

By the way, I just read that Russia's new probe to the moon has a number of goals and one of the specific ones are to visit the US landing site to verify that we actually landed there.

Bet that has a lot of people worried.

Who wants to bet that their rocket mysteriously blows up upon take off?

 

I am not exactly inventing it as I go along as much as putting out dribs and drabs to see if I can get an interesting conversation going.

You have certainly brought up more conspiracies than I had intended to deal with. Reptilians and faked moon landings are a little beyond my scope and the Bilderburgs while interesting are not really where I was going.

Any ideas on these or other topics are most welcome though.

I think when you alluded to Dulles and the history of intelligence and covert ops since the war and even up to the current century and the war on terror you were getting to the heart of the matter.

What is the common thread if there is one?

As you said, there is all kinds of material out there.

 

I heard that the government is rounding up all conspiracy theorists and taking them to Area 51 to be anally probed by aliens, using black helicopters paid for by the Illuminati. Shhhhh, don't tell anyone.

 

When it comes to the Kennedy assassination one of the most overlooked peices of evidence is the direction that Oswald was allegedly shooting from. The bullet entered into Kennedy's left temple and exited out the back of his head. This makes it impossible for Oswald, who was actually behind Kennedy, to his right, in the book depository at the time of the first shot. This is where the "magic bullet" theory gets it's name. Because the only way Oswald shot the bullet that killed JFK, he would have had to have used a magic bullet which veered past Kennedy, turned in midair, and hit Kennedy side not facing Oswald.

Then there is the fact that Jack Ruby was a known Mafia wise-guy, who his way into the jail as they were moving Oswald and shot him. Why would a mafioso wanna kill the man who killed their biggest threat? Because he was ordered to. That was the mafia's part in the conspiracy, silencing the fall guy.

I call Oswald the fall guy because that's exactly what he was. I believe that the JFK assassination was a plot between the CIA, American Mafia, and various elements of the Military-Industrial Complex, and possibly LBJ, in order to remove Kennedy from power and allow them to continue the activities which Kennedy wouldn't allow.

The mafia's purpose was clear. Kennedy's family had past dealings with mobsters and he and his brother went after the mob stronger as a sign that they were not in bed with them.

The CIA's reasons are far less clear, but I am sure it had to do with illegal CIA black ops and possibly Kennedy refusing to intervene more aggressively in Vietnam and other countries with strong communist support. For their part, my idea that is that not only put at least one shooter in Dallas to do the job, but that also used fake Soviet "spies" to recruit Oswald, who was a known communist, into the plot. My idea is that CIA agents posing as Soviet spies told Oswald that the USSR was going assassinate Kennedy and offered him asylum in the USSR if he worked with them. Oswald would be a perfect patsy. If the plot was uncovered, they had a sure way of blaming it on the soviets.

I believe that at least one military general was involved, because if you look up deployment records, you see that there were a number of active duty national guard soldiers on deployment in Dallas at the time of the assassination. Some people make the mistake of thinking that this is typical of Presidential visits, but it's not. The national guard typically do not have any involvement in presidential travel or visits. The USMC fly his helecopters, and under Kennedy, the USAF already handled Air Force One, and the Secret Service directly handled all ground travel. I believe that these soldiers were on call to keep order and prevent rioting in the wake of the assassination.

 

It's Smurf's, trust me they've been trying to take over the world for years.

When little red riding hood took a dump on Pappa Smurf's vegetable patch it started a decades long war that has claimed millions of innocent lives so far.

It's the Smurf's or US.

Unfortunately Pappa was a recent casualty

 

The Americans excuse for entering WWI is openly BS. Britain's excuse for entering WWII was proved to be BS in 44.

 

Never trusted those little blue devils. And what are they hiding under those stupid white hats anyway??

They are up to something I tell you!

 

You are partly correct in that it is highly unlikely that the bullet that caused the massive, fatal head wound came from the front for the simple reason that all the blown out material seemed to go to the rear. When people first saw the Zapruder film, they thought Jackie was trying to escape out the back of the limo. She wasn't. She was trying to collect a chunk of the President's skull which was blown out onto the back of the car. She tried to give the piece to doctors at Parkland who all reported a gaping head wound to the back right of Kennedy's skull. McClelland even reported that the cerebellum even plopped out onto the gurney.

This head would mysteriously disappeared from the autopsy drawings and photo in Maryland.

But, you are mixing up the magic bullet with the fatal headwound. The magic bullet was the one that accounted for all the other wounds to both Kennedy and Connolly according to the Warren Commission. The official story is that three bullets were fired in 6 seconds and we know that one missed while one caused the massive damage of the fatal head wound as you describe. That leaves one more bullet and there is the rub.

Both Connolly's testimony to his dying day and the Zapruder film prove that one bullet could not have caused all those injuries

Makes much more sense than the original story and Ruby stated as much in public interview.

The rumour is that Chicago mafia helped Kennedy win close states in WV and Illinois. Then bobby declared war on organized crime. Funny story that Marcello had a Guatemalan passport but had never really been there but Bobby deported him just to show he could. Apparently it was Ferrie who was contracted to fly down and rescue Marcello from a country where he knew almost no one. Would have pissed the NO crime boss to no end, I'm sure.

All kinds of interesting stuff here. To understand the CIA's role, you really have to understand the Bay of Pigs operation and Kennedy's refusal to call in air support or declare official American support once the invasion went south. There are still Cuban expats who hate Kennedy for that.

Then, Kennedy decided to break up the CIA plotters who had embarrassed him so badly with the botched invasion, Dulles, Harvey, Morales and Phillips to name a few.

https://www.salon.com/2015/11/22/in...f_the_cia_and_what_really_happened_in_dallas/

There is a lot about the police detail and the planning of the motorcade route that is interesting to speculate on. Not only that but the body's removal from Dallas to Bethesda against specific laws in the county that all gunshot autopsy's be performed there in Dallas raises all sorts of questions - especially when considering what happened to the body during that flight, which is a whole other area of very interesting speculation.

 

The Magic Bullet - Another Look!

According to the Warren Commission, Oswald fired off three shots in 6 seconds which accounted for all the injuries that occurred that day. One bullet missed. We know that from the bystander under the triple overpass who was nicked by a fragment or chucks of cement thrown up by a bullet that was later confirmed through investigation as having missed. Another shot was the massive and fatal head wound that tore the President's skull apart and splattered brain material and blood throughout the limousine.

That leaves one more bullet to account for all the other injuries that occurred. These include Kennedy's throat wound which Dallas doctors assumed was a front entry as well as the impact to Governor Connolly which passed from Kennedy into the Governor's back breaking his 7th rib and then through the torso to the right wrist breaking the large radius bone before exiting and embedding in Connolly's thigh> Later the bullet, which had passed through two people and broken two bones along the way was supposedly recovered in virtually pristine condition on a bloodless stretcher in Parkland hospital. Photos of the bullet show a slight flattening and a small nick removed where material was excised for further analysis.

All this by a single bullet! Is this possible? Let's have a look.

Governor Connolly has maintained to his dying day that the first shot that hit the President was not the same bullet that hit him in the back. According to his own testimony, he heard a shot and turned around to his right to see if anyone had been hit. He couldn't see anything as the President by this time had slumped over to his left. Connolly pivoted his head to look over his other shoulder and then felt something slam in to his back and he knew he had been shot perhaps fatally. He exclaimed, "my God they're going to kill us all."

Here is Connolly's account which he gives on Larry King and has been consistent about right to the end of his life:



The famous Zapruder film confirms this. One can clearly see the limo pull onto Elm St. and everything is fine with both Kennedy and Connolly waving to the crowd. The limo then disappears behind a traffic sign for a few seconds. When the limousine reappears you can clearly see that something is wrong. Kennedy is sitting bolt upright and his arms are up around his throat with his hands clearly bunched into fists. He is clearly in distress.

Connolly is fully pivoted over to his right trying to look over his right shoulder. In his right hand he is still holding his stetson in a hand whose wrist has supposedly just been broken by the same bullet that has hit Kennedy in the throat. Connolly then is clearly seen pivoting back to centre in order to look over his left shoulder when he too slumps straight forward and has clearly been hit.

So unless there is some kind of weird time-dilation, it is impossible that the first bullet that hit Kennedy was also the one that caused all Connolly's injuries.

Here is the Zapruder film showing the chain of events:



Of all the other strange unexplained things that happened surrounding the Kennedy assassination, this and the differing accounts from witness examination of Kennedy's body from the first medical responers at Parkland hospital in Dallas and those of the official autopsy at Bethesda Naval hospital in Maryland were Kennedy's body was illegally sequestered by the secret service immediately after Kennedy died, open up all kinds of questions about what really happened that day and have had a large part in fueling all the conspiracy theories that have arisen out the assassination.

The Presidential limousine was also sequestered immediately after the assassination and then reconditioned at the orders on LBJ before any examination as to bullet fragments or trajectories could be done or if they were done, they were never made public.

So, among all the other irregularities of the investigation, no competent examination or forensics of the vehicle that may have shed light on how many bullets and which ones hit whom were ever performed or released publicly.

Very strange and it only gets weirder from here.

 

Here's some stuff I've been researching.
http://well-temperedforum.groupee.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9130004433/m/6371082656/p/1

 

fair statement ... but I am curious ... in your opinion, which conspiracy theories can be dismissed? ...

 

Sorry, I'm not getting what you are researching from the link. Can you be more specific?

 

Lol, well, I don't know that I should alienate any readers by raining on their favorite theory.

I think I was a little too broad in introducing in the op but I wanted the cool LOTR reference in the title.

Where I was really going was conspiracies involving what Peter Dale Scott would call the deep state and it's effect on how we percieve significant events in world history from JFK to the scandals of the eighties right up to today.

But to answer your question, I generally discount replilians and I do believe that men walked on the moon.

Does that help?

 

The Evidence from Parkland and the Autopsy at Bethesda

After the President was shot the limousine immediately drove to Parkland hospital in Dallas where Kennedy was removed to trauma room and efforts were made to resuscitate him as at this point there was still flickering signs of life. The first step was to perform a trachenectomy (sp) over the throat wound which the doctors in Dallas assumed to be an entry wound. This was performed in order to see if any of the major vessels to the brain had been infected. In the middle of this procedure, Kennedy all vital signs stopped and the President was dead so the procedure stopped and observations of the injuries were more closely examined.

All the doctors at Parkland recorded seeing the massive, fist-sized hole in the back of Kennedy's head and to the right. Dr. Robert McClelland reported actually seeing part of the cerebellum flop out onto the gurney from out of the gaping wound. Dr Perry confirmed his account.

Here is a representation of the wound he observed:



Here is McClelland's account of what he saw:



There has been some confusion among some of the doctors over time and some including Peter's have gone back slightly over their original testimony in order to more conform with the official autopsy results but their original viewpoints are all remarkably consistent about the massive rear head wound and discrepancy with the autopsy photos and drawings from the later records such as they were from the Bethesda autopsy.

Here is a full examination of the testimony of the Parkland doctors including interviews with many of the original eyewitnesses:



Later there would be arguments between secret service and Parkland staff over the Presidents body. By law, gunshot murders in the county must have autopsy performed in the county. The secret service eventually spirited the body away and it was loaded into Air Force One in an ornate bronze casket which we all saw famously rising up the scaffolding into the belly of the plane.

But this is not the same casket that arrived in Maryland. Two of the medical assistants who received the body both testified that it did not arrive in an ornate casket but in a standard shipping crate much like the ones soldiers coming back from Iraq are transported in. Not only that but when the assistants opened the body bag, they both are on record as saying some kind of surgery had been done on the Presidents head and that it appeared that a large incision had been made from the temple region back along the top of the skull and that Kennedy's brain was missing.

Here is an interview with assistant Paul O'Conner starting at the 9:39 point of this video:



O'Conner is being interviewed by author David Lifton who's book, Best Evidence goes through all the inconsistencies and problems with the autopsy performed at Bethesda Navel Hospital by doctors who had never performed a gunshot autopsy before.

If you can make it through all 37 minutes of this video, Lifton presents his case really well with eyewitness testimony including X-ray technicians and official documentation from the autopsy.

Next.......The Autopsy:

Where did this official autopsy photo of the back of Kennedy's head come from and where did his brain go?

 

It's just a collection of stuff that goes against the official version. Some of them have been proven and are no longer theories and some are still theories. I added more stuff on the later pages. I just thought it would help the discussion.

 

99% of conspiracies fall under the "cockup theory"*.

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/****-up.html

In essence there is no actual conspiracy and instead it is just a series of screw ups and failures that are being misunderstood. The Maine explosion falls into this category.

Then there is the SIZE fallacy when it comes to conspiracies. For there to be a conspiracy behind 9/11 would require so many people involved that it would never remain concealed.

Yes, there are some genuine conspiracies for nefarious ends but they are few and far between because to pull off a complex conspiracy without any leaks and mistakes is well nigh impossible.

 

The press is owned. If an insider decided to go to the press and blow the whistle, the press wouldn't report what he said.

(post #50)
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...germany-in-1933.401955/page-3#post-1066548138


The proof that 9/11 was an inside job is crushing.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...orted-9-11-terrorists.456423/#post-1066183060

 

In theory your statement seems to make sense and logically one would want to agree but.....not so fast. We don't really know all the facts about the Maine explosion so it is hard to jump to conclusions this far removed from the event. There seems to be no clear, indisputable evidence that is was a hostile action by a foreign power - which leads to second guessing the official account. The trouble is that in many cases we cannot question the official account without being subject to all kinds of derision and ridicule.

Don''t forget that the mafia is able to enforce and keep secrets because if you say anything it is a bullet in the head. So it is not too much of a stretch that if the mafia is able then deep government ops can't do the same.

While I agree that it is hard to imagine how an outfit as incompetent as the Bush Administration could pull off something as complex and convoluted as 9/11, there were and are lots of shady operatives running around the Admin that had a lot of experience both in political machinations and dark ops.

The official story seems to make sense. We all saw those planes hit the towers and observed them coming down and al-Qaeda seemed the likely group to have financed and planned the op.

But here's the thing. The more one gets into the details and really studies what happened, the more bizarre implausible connections and contradictions arise and when you really explore these there are more absurdities underlying all the absurdities and more things that just don't make sense. The official story keeps changing to suit the circumstances and so much information and evidence is classified and not open to public view.

And when you look at a case like JFK, there have been confessions and key figures involved have gone on record contradiction the official story but those accounts just seem to disappear and the press moves on to the next scandal or trivial media sensation. E.Howard Hunt made a deathbed confessions but it was written off and ignored Jimmy Files has made an interesting confession but no one has really investigated and followed up.

And I think that Scott is on to something. We are not even really allowed to examine these events without being accused of being an wacko, wingnut or borderline insane. With all the ridicule and derision that comes with even asking questions, how is the press going to risk it's reputation and access to figures of power if is asks these types of questions? There is such a thing as careerism. Quite by design, I think, questioning the official narrative can ruin a journalists career so most avoid it and no one is doing real investigative journalism anymore - well almost no one.

And the ones who do seriously explore these deeply controversial events, Robert Cay Johnson, Peter Dale Scott, David LIfton or Russ Baker get pushed to the sidelines and mocked and ridiculed.

Even here on this forum, I have read some of the other threads and they are largely filled with people who get their jollies ridiculing people but no next to nothing about the actual details of events or any of the serious arguments, haven't read anything that questions their opinion and refuse to do so yet feel they are qualified enough on the subject to make fun of anyone who actually has shown an interest in exploring the material and asking questions.

So, in answer, first of all let me thank you for the tone of your comment. Truthfully, I agree with you that it is unimaginable how something as big and catastrophic as 9/11 was pulled off by conspiracy and kept silent. I am actually an agnostic on 9/11.

But I have made a study of some of the key figures circling about the event and their history going back decades and I can tell you that there are some very strange and deeply disturbing facts that just can't be that easily ignored or laughed off. And it's not like there are just one or two strange things that don't add up. There are layers and layers and layers upon layers of all kinds of these strange connections and coincidences and things that don't add up once you really get into it.

I'll just start with one and see what you think. Condeleeza Rice said no one could imagine someone using planes as weapons and flying them into buildings. Yet. the CIA had a detailed plan for just such an op for a black flag operation to attack American Assets and civilians in order to build support for a war with Cuba. It was called operation Northwood and called for flying remote controlled planes into buildings:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

This is just one little example of a strange coincidence. We could spend days and days and write books on all the strange weirdness around the 9/11 attacks.

Was it an inside conspiracy? I honestly don't know. But does the official version stand up to the truth (pun intended) test? Well, honestly explore the details of the events and if one is able to sift the evidence for what we really know about that day, there are a lot of unanswered questions out there.

 

Okay, thanks. I'll have a look when I get a chanced