Oregon teacher removes American flag from classroom, says it 'stands for violence....

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Space_Time, Sep 16, 2021.

  1. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That would be insane. Fortunately, only the claims you are making are insane. Public schools do not teach children to hate anyone.
     
  2. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really? We saw videos of teachers telling their students to hate Trump.
     
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  3. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Okay, but again, why require it? I think we should first examine what we think we'll accomplish by doing that.

    I grew up as a military brat during the Vietnam War, and we pledged every morning. Cars on base stopped at 5:00, and those in uniform got out and saluted as the flag came down. We weren't allowed to talk or to do anything except follow the rules. I had no problem with that at all.

    But what did all that do for me? In time, I came to see it all as more like a joke, and the pledge as just mindless repetitions that I'd never given much thought to. I was a good boy who did as I was told to do, and I didn't question any of it.

    I don't hate the flag or this country. Quite the opposite. But if we are forced to believe in something, do we really believe it? Is it not at some level mind control?
     
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  4. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    I don't think that teacher viewed the flag as profane in any way. She simply made a statement to point out a poorly thought out resolution by the school board.
     
  5. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Everyone is missing the point here. It should be up to whatever the policy of that school is and not the personal feelings of one over entitled employee that thinks they can shove their political agenda down the throats of others
    Everyone needs to shut the hell up and do their jobs
     
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  6. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Considering the teach said the flag stood 'for violence and menace and intolerance', profane is just another word to describe to her anger. She didn't say 'to be equal to not having other flags in the room, let's remove this one' She was quite clear in her feelings towards the flag. IMO, it was an act of spite and anger.

    I did the morning salute all through school, and it was about showing respect to the country that provides the ability to seek freedom and happiness for each person.
     
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  7. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    That's a discussion to hold with your Oregon State Legislator, or, if you view the law as an illegitimate exercise of legislative authority, to take to the closest courtroom. Absent that, it binds her conscience, and while she may choose to leave the classroom, she cannot legitimately remove the flag from the classroom.
    The Law does not control your mind, it controls your actions. The People of The Great State of Oregon, through their elected representatives, require the US flag in the classroom. She is not required to "believe it" she is only required to "leave it" in place. If balancing her desire to honor the collective will of her fellow citizens against her personal revulsion toward the flag results in her decision to leave the classroom, that's her right as a Free Person, but, what she does not have a legitimate right to do, is remove the flag from the classroom, which is what she has done, and bragged about on social media.

    Now, if she thinks the flag in the classroom violates her personal rights, our system guarantees her the right to petition for redress from either or both the Court or the Legislature. I see no evidence that she has availed herself of these lawful opportunities.

    One of the things I like about a good corrective action process is that it requires the supervisor to write down clear expectations and the means to accomplish them. I think this would increase her ability to make an informed decision.
     
  8. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Her stated reasons are that our flag "stands for violence and menace and intolerance". To me that's suitably reduced to "profane" but that was my condensation of her reason cited from memory.
    Yes, she disagreed with the school board's decision not to allow BLM and LGBTQ Pride symbols in the classroom. If her target was the school board then wouldn't it make more sense to violate their prohibition by posting the BLM and LGBTQ symbols in defiance of the School Board rather than violating the State Law requiring the flag to be posted in the classroom?

    To me her attempts to justify her lawless act confirm her poor grasp of her responsibility to be a law abiding citizen in good standing with the various authorities she is accountable to and calls her decision making skills into question. I'm sure that her teaching contract requires her to remain a citizen in good standing as a condition of remaining a force of influence in the classroom.

    Your thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  9. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    No, not the Oregon Legislature, I want your thoughts. It's an issue that we all need to consider in the sense that requiring a flag is un-American in the sense that it's forced rather than choice. If Oregon were to require LBGTQ flags or any of those others, I'm pretty sure comments would be taking a different tack.

    So, throw out the politics, the history, and social arguments long enough to consider if forcing schools to fly flags is not promoting a set of beliefs. If that's not a problem, then why did the school ban the other flags?
    Her reasons for saying that would then be considered her opinion, right? But I do believe that the whole point was to show the hypocrisy of the resolution. How can you say a gay flag is offensive and not say the US flag is also offensive? Are we limiting her actions and thoughts according to our opinions? Do you see a contradiction?

    Yes, she could have put those flags in the class in defiance of the resolution, but that would be a violation of the resolution and could lead to a loss of job. She's pushing the issue to force the school to either force her to fly the US flag, which doesn't seem Constitutional, or allow other flags.

    I think she has an excellent grasp on her responsibility, especially in showing students that others should not force their beliefs on them. It's those foundational rights that we're not thinking much about.
     
  10. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if you know much about my state, but in about 75% of the geographic area, your generalization would be laughed at. You probably should have just referenced the city, Portland which is far more diverse and progressive than is Salem or even Eugene/ Springfield. This does not surprise me in Portland.

    Here's how I look at this. It depends on how broad you are defining the phrase 'political symbol' I treat national or state flags as like entities. I would treat the American flag the same way I treat the Mexican or Israeli flag or the Oregon state flag. I am not offended by them. I don't want them excluded or required.

    With others, its going to get dicey. Are all cultural symbols or identity symbols by definition political? Probably. I think we are wiser if the school district does not promote some in the classroom.

    Somehow I see a teacher putting a small 'flag' on her desk as less of a problem than one stretched across the school room wall.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  11. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The American flag represents ALL Americans, the LGBT and blm flags do not. Democrats are fond of saying 'that's not who we are.' But as Americans, that flag absolutely represents who we are and people should be appreciative and proud of it.

    As of right now the flag belongs in the classroom. It should be there because it's the one thing in this country right now that represents all people on all sides.
     
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  12. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

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    Th plot thickens:
     
  13. TRFjr

    TRFjr Well-Known Member Donor

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    If the American flag is a political symbol what political persuasion does it represent? democracy?
     
  14. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No snark, dead serious here. It looks like teaching kids to feel guilty over something they didn't do in a state with a 2% black population is backfiring, they're literally acting out what they're being taught. And there's nothing racist about it as slaves came in all shapes and sizes. In fact, the bidding for slaves is alive and well in Africa and Asia, but getting a leftist to admit that would be impossible, they'd probably say it's racist just to mention it.

     
  15. Bearack

    Bearack Well-Known Member

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    Apparently you have no idea what the 50 stars, the 13 stripes stand for or what the red, white and blue mean? They are empirical to every reason the experiment was created and the reason why this nation became the worlds greatest country ever. There is EXTREME value in what this flag represents.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  16. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Ok, so it represent who we are, and more so than the other flags. No argument there. But I'm still not getting anyone to answer whether or not it should be required in the classroom, and if it is, does it become a Constitutional issue?

    It just depends on who is using it at the time. I'm not saying it's only a political symbol, but it is used politically quite often. It triggers a certain emotional reaction that can result in votes.

    I haven't argued anything contrary to that.

    All I've been focused on here is the idea that requiring it in the classroom is contrary to the idea of freedom.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  17. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Why should we teach civics? So kids have a clue how our system works?
     
  18. Vote4Future

    Vote4Future Well-Known Member

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    Oregon teacher is an idiot and should pack bags and leave country now.
     
  19. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here's another one who shouldn't be allowed near a classroom. The irony with both of these teachers is they work for the government.


     
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  20. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Apples and oranges. Schools are for education, so teaching civics is required as part of getting a high school diploma. Having a flag is not.
     
  21. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Civics is political right? Apples to apples.
     
  22. Bridget

    Bridget Well-Known Member

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    Oregon risks going the way of California, to becoming, basically, a third world country.
     
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  23. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Why have the US flag? Because this is America. Perhaps to honor the 1.1 million American soldiers that have died in war. Perhaps to remind us that we live in a great country.

    Next you probably will ask/question (or maybe not) why we have a picture of Joe Biden on the wall of all major Federal buildings.
     
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  24. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    I am sure San Frandildo or some other liberal shithole will be removing all American flags soon.
     
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I disagree with the teacher

    but, let's be honest, the only reason the flag is there now is that republicans added "under God" to the pledge a few years ago, and now they want every one to repeat it, remove the "under God", the pledge and flag should represent ALL Americans
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021

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