Our voting system is pathetic.

Can't happen with mail-in-voting.

 

Sometimes maximizing the vote isn't the top concern. Sometimes the integrity of the vote takes precedence. I think voting should be done in person, and be counted in front of a public gallery as soon as the polls close. A Federal truck should then show up and take all the ballots, under CCTV, to somewhere to be stored for later use.

 

Absolutely. But then there may never be two parties again. The dem's wouldn't have any votes.

 

They could stuff their mail ins in a corner and vote the dead people and the illegals.

 

You mean 'Little Hati ' don't you? Now Little Havana knows how it feels to be invaded by an outside culture. Hope they enjoy it.

 

I don’t think it's quite as bad as it’s often made out to be but there do seem to be issue to address. I don’t think more technology is in itself any kind of solution to those problems though and could even make them worse. I’m not convinced any kind of electronic voting system could be any more secure than a well-run manual system and the scope that there is for error or corruption is much more complicated. Pretty much anyone can understand and thus take a role in moderating a manual count of paper ballots but it would require a level of technical expertise to play the same role with electronic system. You also need to bring the public with you and even if an electronic system was as or even more secure, plenty of people would have less faith in it, if only due to their lack of understanding and the perceived (and actual) opacity of an electronic system.

It seems to me that the core of these issues isn’t the voting system(s) but the people involved, specifically the political parties involved. Here in the UK (and I believe in many other countries), we have an Electoral Commission, a government organisation but politically independent. They’re responsible with everything to do with running elections, including electoral maps, registration, number of polling places, voting methods, counts and generally addressing electoral fraud.

I think that is something the US desperately needs, at either individual state or federal level and would immediately eliminate much of the political bias (or perception of it) in many of these decisions and processes. They’d also have an interest and mandate to push for fundamentally better systems and methods to the benefit of voters and democracy, which could also include an honest look at bringing more technology in to the whole process. I don’t think your general political environment is in a position to properly ask those questions at the moment.

 

Is the voting process secure? Hell no, and it has nothing to do with computers or hacking. It has everything to do with Democrats simply printing ballots.

When the Democrat Supervisor of Elections is dishonest, and the entire Democrat party and all its useful idiots back the dishonesty, then it does not matter how secure you make the machines.

 

No, an independent electoral system will not solve the problems in the USA.

The election shenanigans are a symptom, they are not the problem. The problem is the USA is in a civil war and while its not a shooting war (yet), its being fought in all other arenas - elections, social media, schools, universities, entertainment, local and state govt, and of course in the halls of the federal govt.

The rule of law does not really even exist in the USA anymore. The basic laws are applied to the average person going about their daily lives, but when political activity is involved, the law is whatever the politicians can make it.

 

Can't happen. Hasn't happened. Everyone who gets a mail-in ballot has already been confirmed as a citizen and resident of the state including address and phone.

 

Anything can and sometimes does happen.
I bet if the tables were turned you would have a different opinion about it.

 

I've lived with this system of mail-in ballots since it began 20 years ago. It's trouble free. So please stop spewing fabricated partisan opinion as though it is fact.

 

I don't have a dog in this race and haven't for years.
so can't be partisan. And I don't comment to please you or anyone else here. So don't give me orders.
I think they know who will win before any ' election '. Hope I'm wrong but the same things happen no matter who gets in.

 

You said "Anything can and sometimes does happen."

That is nothing more than an opinion and obviously meaningless.

I ASKED you to "please stop spewing" opinion. That isn't an "order" and if you can't take it you might tell someone who cares.

 

Not electing Republicans, apparently

 

With me it's 50 years but same thing. I've never been asked for an ID. I was an election judge they told us we were definitely not supposed to ask for ID. I can't see how ID would make any difference. You have to register to vote and they check your ID quite thoroughly then, and nobody who isn't registered can vote anywhere to my understanding.

 

If you have to show your ID when you register then what is the problem showing it at the polling place. How do they know you are the same person who registered and not some neighbor who knew you moved away or a relative who knew you moved away or someone like that? We've had voter ID for decades now. Never heard of any problems or lawsuits or complaints people not being able to vote. Even my blind mother had her state issued ID.

 

Out of curiosity.

How and how do they know it is current? How do they know it's not someone you know who knows you moved and live somewhere else?

Personally I don't want personal information such as my address or phone number attached to my ballot, I like the secret ballot thingy.

 

Like an illegal immigrant for example? Good luck matching the signature. Plus, when you move you normally get your drivers' license corrected, voting registration changed, your address changed with the post office, etc. Your ballot would not be sent to your old address. The chance of a person forgetting to change their voter registration, forgetting to have mail forwarded to their new address, a criminal knowing all of that and knowing to look for the ballot in the mailbox, and to successfully forge the signature and risk VERY serious penalties is so small as to be meaningless. My chance of making a trip to the moon is about as great.

The details are part of your voter registration. The mail-in ballot consists of the ballot with no name on it, and a "secrecy envelope" that you put it in after signing the secrecy envelope. So, no worries, the ballot is secret.

Here is the Oregon voter registration card so you can check the information required.

And here is some information on registering online.

 

I have argued for a complete overhaul of our voting systems for decades. It starts with security and identification along with location. The first step is creating a national ID that is tamper proof. We should all support this as it solves a lot of problems for all of us. My solution is to use the SS ID as a form of national ID. A blue one is a citizen, a green one is a legal alien, a white one is a temporary worker. The first thing you do is to verify all existing SS numbers over a period of time. Give living SS number holders one year to verify through secure means that they are alive, they are citizens (this may take several passes but we need to do it), their address for voting purposes and payments of SS benefits, etc. All new babies born are issued a birth certificate and a SS ID upon birth. Deaths must be reported as well. No existing SS number should ever be re-used, once issued it can no longer be used by anyone else. This process will demand new IT systems, perhaps in a secure cloud on government servers in secure facilities. Your new ID will be smart, it will be instantly verifiable and impossible to forge. The database once set up will only allow the user to change the address. That address is your voting address. Once you do this, a secure voting system can be created that insures you voted in the correct state, county or city. If you move and do not change the address, you will vote in the one on file. No changes to the address say one month prior to a federal election.

This will clean up all the forged SS IDs used by illegals. It will allow employers to easily verify. It will give election officials verification options. It will not allow you to vote more than once because you must show your ID upon voting in person. Mail in ballots may need a different system, that might be tricky. Everything is managed by a non-partisan watch dog agency something like the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, no monkey business. Every person who has a blue SS ID is automatically registered in every state for every national election, no excuses, no purges, no fake excuses to unregister people, everyone is eligible. This may take an amendment to create national voter rights but lets do it.

 

Like a landload who has your rent checks and lease you signed. Like a family member. I suppose you are not objecting the exact match criteria in Georgia which the libs are complaining about then?

Is it forwardable? Post Offices only deal with forwardable mail. What if you move to a different state, which is a problem even with states that don't have mail in ballots?

Y

But there is a chance and how would I be caught if I illegal mailed in a ballot that was not mine.

So your ballot is submitted with identification that it came from you.

It's not the registration I am concerned about it's the casting of the ballot. When I vote I identify myself to the poll worker and get a blank ballot and fill it out and then run it through the scanner. There is no connection between me and my vote. Under your system a government official gets the envelope with my identification on it compares it to a record of me and then opens it and views it. Is that correct or am I missing something?

 

AFAIK the law still prohibits your SS number being used as a form of ID, it was taken off drivers licenses years ago in states that use to apply it because if you lost it someone had everything they needed to steal you identity. You are advised to not even carry you SS card on your person. State ID's work just fine although I have no problem with a national ID, elections are state affairs not federal. And Government and secure IT systems.....................

 

Of course I object. It's being done to an extreme degree by those who want to steal the election.

Oregon has had no problem with anything. Part of the reason is that Oregon is run by Democrats and Democrats have no interest in stealing elections or having them stolen, so they install effective measures. If there were problems of the sort you are raising, I would have heard of them.

Write to the Oregon Election Board and ask them so you'll get a direct and reliable answer. I don't work for them.

As I stated. They have strict guidelines on the opening of the first envelope and the logging of the votes.

See my last answer.

Here are some additional data: https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Documents/ors-254.pdf
See in particular "254.074 County elections security plan"

"Oregon has the most convenient voting system in the country. Since adopting vote-by-mail, Oregon consistently ranks as a national leader in voter turnout."

"Oregon has a proud tradition of open, accessible and fair elections. Voter fraud is rare but taken seriously.

If you believe someone has violated Oregon elections law, contact the Elections Division. Every complaint will be investigated, and violations will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Oregon supports unparalleled transparency. Contact your county elections office to observe the election process."

Your phone calls are monitored. No problem? IF, and I stress "IF", an election worker does see my name and how I voted, do you think they keep a record so they can harass voters they don't agree with? I mean so what? Someone sees your name, along with about 400,000 other names. I'd worry more about someone listening to my phone calls.

 

I did not say that it was a top concern, but it should be something we strive for in a democracy. Security and verification can be achieved with a higher turnout possibility. This is why I suggested online voting with blockchain as it backbone.

 

The reason I suggested blockchain because this makes the data security much higher than any paper copy. Blockchains are created using the submitted information as part of the encryption. You cannot change the information within the blockchain without rewriting the entire chain. This is why some people call it nearly unhackable, but I think that is a bit too ambiguous to say it is true. Blockchain makes the data nearly unchangeable, but you can still hack the user's entry points. I would be happy if we at least use blockchain for the in person votes. The machines can be used to record the information from ballots and use a blockchian to store this information. This would make the current machines less vulnerable to data manipulation attacks. The drawback is that the blockchain would make the information about who cast which vote for which candidate. In other words, anyone who has access to the blockchain would have access to see who you voted for.

 

So no comment? I guess the Oregon system doesn't provide much opportunity for partisan attacks on it's reliability. Right? Is that what you see?