Out of the three branches of government who has the most power?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Spooky, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Executive, the Legislative, or the Judicial.

    I have my opinion on who ultimately has the most power but would love to hear some of the other thoughts on this issue.
     
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    They have different types of power, different levels of power. Who has more power, the police chief or the officers actually out there arresting people? That's the type of question you're asking. Theoretically top legal power rests in the voters, then the legislative branch, then the office of President, and finally the courts are at the bottom of that hierarchy. But the courts are the ones actually running the day to day operations.

    "The Judicial" is not really truly a branch of government equal the Legislative or Executive. That's mostly a myth.
    The real 3 branches of government are the House of Representatives, the Senate, and the Presidency.
    The Supreme Court doesn't have any real legal check on the power of Congress (if Congress can come to a majority).
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  3. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

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    If something is in dispute who ultimately can settle it?

    Say it was a turf war and all sides thought they had the final say, who would win?

    Pick topic A, the congress passes it and the president veto's it and the congress overrules him.

    The president takes it to the Supreme court and they side with the president so congress impeaches the dissenting members and either has them replaced or stays with those that agree with them.

    Do you see where this is going?
     
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, if we're not talking about a revolutionary coup, Congress would have the ultimate legal authority. Either with the support of the President, or a two-thirds majority to override his veto.

    Here's something else you may not know: the speaker of the House is effectively the House, unless the members remove him. They don't even record votes precisely all the time, the House passes a law just because the Speaker says there was a majority.

    You could imagine a "turf war" if the Speaker refused to step down and was supported by the Sergeant at Arms, while the members of the House claimed they had a majority vote to remove him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, that's exactly what would happen.
    Most likely if it wasn't too important of a matter they wouldn't bother impeaching the judges and the judges would end up having the final say.

    I don't know what the current legal situation is for judges to issue a warrant interferring with the Presidency. (That would depend on the laws set by Congress) I'm assuming it would be legalized warfare. But the judge would almost certainly be impeached unless the legal action was for some extreme emergency.

    It would be a similar situation if two judges both tried to hold each other in contempt, or two police officers tried to arrest each other.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    If Congress fails to act, the legal remedy would be the courts. They often exceed their legal bounds (remember they're the ones interrpretting and applying the law).

    I suppose it's hypothetically possible if all the judges conspired together they could hold the government hostage, but some other law enforcement branch would likely rebel. Then you might have a temporary coup to restore the government, like what happened in Thailand.

    The Attorney General (part of the Executive) has a lot of power too. They are legally empowered to arrest and prosecute and bring in front of the courts.
    They probably have as much power as the courts, except it would be easier for the courts to interrpret that they had more legal power. Which basically just means plausible deniability if they might be punished later.

    When it comes down to it, laws are made to be broken in certain situations.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  7. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

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    We aren't talking about congress failing to act though.

    We are talking about all three branches acting with all their power.

    Who would win out?

    Who has ultimate control?
     
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    Obviously Congress (if the House and Senate are working together), they can set whatever law they want to.

    I would argue that Congress would probably win out over the Constitution, if the law conflicted with the Constitution. They could effectively strip all power away from the Supreme Court (even though the Constitution specifies the Supreme Court to have ultimate appellate powers).

    That's not to say the law would be legal, necessarily, in the Constitutional sense, of course. But Congress would be in the ultimate position to settle the issue.

    Congress could probably overturn a Supreme Court ruling by passing a simple resolution. The Supreme Court would then most likely not intervene. If they did, there's always the threat of impeachment and replacement.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    There are different types of control. I am presuming we are specifying legal control.
     
  10. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member

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    The judicial has the most power by in certain situations by far because of a quirk in the system.

    There are 13 appellate courts and 179 appellate court judges and picking the right judge can stop about any controversial action by the president.
     
  11. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Donor

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    Alexandria Occasional Cortex sez,

    "If we work our butts off to make sure that we take back all three chambers of Congress — uh, rather, all three chambers of government: the presidency, the Senate, and the House"
     
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  12. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

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    But the legislative can replace the judicial.

    The judicial can do nothing to the legislative.
     
  13. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

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    What other control would there be, it's not like the 3 branches have standing armies ready to go.

    lol
     
  14. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about impeachment? That is a difficult process.
    They can declare their laws unconstitutional. And they can do it with a single judge at least until it goes to the full panel of judges and to the supreme court. Those singe judges have an incredible amount of power.
     
  15. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

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    And the legislative can replace that judge, resubmit their lawsuit and keep doing so until they get what they want.

    So who ultimately has more power there?
     
  16. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    They are all equal in decree..
     
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  17. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

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    Are they equal in power however?

    I would say no.

    The judicial and the executive are only checks on the legislative who ultimately have all control in the nation if they wanted it.
     
  18. jdog

    jdog Well-Known Member

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    To understand this issue, you must first understand why our government was constructed the way it was.
    Many, but not all of our forefathers distrusted government and the power government bestowed upon the people in it.
    They were very aware that power corrupts, and that absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

    In order to limit government power and abuse, they designed government to be as accountable as possible to the people.
    The most accountable branch of government is of course Congress. Most citizens can actually sit down and talk to their Congressman, and take them to task should they deserve it. It is nearly impossible to talk with your Senator, and you have no chance whatsoever of talking to your President, or a Supreme Court Justice.

    The Senate was originally designed to be accountable to the individual States, but it is now just accountable to corporate campaign contributions.

    The Supreme court was basically constructed to examine laws to make sure they did not exceed the powers given to government by the Constitution nor infringe on the rights of the people recognized in it.

    This entire structure went haywire at the point where corporations were allowed to purchase the favors and loyalty of government.
    Our government today is only tokenly accountable to the citizens. Its real master is the mega corporations. Not only do the corporations own government, they own the information the citizens use to make their political decisions. They own the news, they own science, they own what you see and hear, and accept as reality.

    Who has the most power? The corporations run your government, and your lives. They are accountable to no one.
     
  19. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not concerned with who runs them, that is irrelevant, what is relevant is who can have the ultimate say in what happens.

    So if the corporations run everything then what branch are they going to go after who can get it done?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  20. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member

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    How many judges have you seen replaced?

    Interesting discussion. Unfortunately, I am going to be tied up for the rest of the day and will not be able to respond.
     

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