Palestinian refugees number only in the thousands, not millions

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by MGB ROADSTER, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Well-Known Member

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    Government study argues figure of millions refugees presented by UNRWA is misleading; Jewish State doesn't acknowledge 5 million descendants of 1948 original refugees.
    A government study shared with Washington argues that Palestinian refugees number in the thousands, not the millions designated by a UN aid agency whose funding has been slashed by the Trump administration, an Israeli official said on Friday.
    The fate of Palestinians displaced during the 1948 War of Independence and their descendants has long clouded US-sponsored peace efforts. Frustration over the issue is among factors fuelling often violent weekly protests at the Gaza border over the last half year.
    Palestinians demand a refugee right of return to Israel, which rejects this, insisting they settle where they are or in a future Palestinian state. Negotiations on founding that state in the West Bank and Gaza stalled in 2014.
    UNRWA was founded in 1949 in the wake of the exodus of around 700,000 refugees who fled or were driven out of Israel on its founding as a state.
    As a result, UNRWA now looks after more than 5 million descendants of those original refugees, in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and the Palestinian territories of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
    The nascent state of Israel absorbed Jewish refugees who were expelled or who fled from neighboring Arab countries, while other Arab states refused to grant the Palestinians citizenship.
    Israel argues that UNRWA perpetuates the Palestinian refugee problem by grossly inflating the number of bonafide refugees.
    Since the agency includes descendants of Palestinian refugees from the War of Independence, it grants refugee status to Palestinians according to a criteria that is not adhered to in any other refugee question.
    UNRWA has become the subject of significant scrutiny since President Trump entered the White House.
    Israel says only survivors among the original 1948 refugees should be considered refugees today—an idea fiercely opposed by the Palestinian leadership, which hews to the UNRWA numbers.
    The Israeli study has not been published and there was no immediate reaction from Palestinian officials or from UNRWA on its numbers.

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5369892,00.html

    Only survivors among the original 1948 refugees should be considered refugees today !
    And we must not forget the Jewish Nakba when 800000 to 1000000 Jews were
    expelled from their houses and villages in Arab countries.
     
  2. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The same government that attempts to minimize the number of Palestine's native residents who were ethnically cleansed by using this self serving "study" is the same government that spends America's $Billions on the world's most extensive, disingenuous & subtle Propaganda Industry(1) in the world that even infects Wikipedia(2).

    The Israeli government pays, trains & produces extensive training manuals for thousands of Hasbara Trolls to be more effective liars who try to obfuscate Israel's criminality & romanticize the terrorist foundation.

    If a government is so deceptive that it resorts to paying individuals to lie about its criminal past & present, why should anyone trust a "study" that is consistent with the lies contained in Israel's own "Hasbara Handbook" (aka "The Global Language Dictionary")?


    (1) Israeli students to get $2,000 to spread state propaganda on Facebook”
    https://electronicintifada.net/blog...ts-get-2000-spread-state-propaganda-facebook”

    EXCERPT “The National Union of Israeli Students (NUIS) has become a full-time partner in the Israeli government’s efforts to spread its propaganda online and on college campuses around the world.

    NUIS has launched a program to pay Israeli university students $2,000 to spread pro-Israel propaganda online for 5 hours per week from the “comfort of home.”

    The union is also partnering with Israel’s Jewish Agency to send Israeli students as missionaries to spread propaganda in other countries, for which they will also receive a stipend.

    This active recruitment of Israeli students is part of Israel’s orchestrated effort to suppress the Palestinian solidarity movement under the guise of combating “delegitimization” of Israel and anti-Semitism.”CONTINUED


    (2) "Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups"
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/aug/18/wikipedia-editing-zionist-groups

    EXCERPT "Now two Israeli groups seeking to gain the upper hand in the online debate have launched a course in "Zionist editing" for Wikipedia, the online reference site.

    Yesha Council, representing the Jewish settler movement, and the rightwing Israel Sheli (My I srael) movement, ran their first workshop this week in Jerusalem, teaching participants how to rewrite and revise some of the most hotly disputed pages of the online reference site."CONTINUED
     
  3. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Well-Known Member

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    There is no connection between what you wrote to the post.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  4. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I assume that you're saying that: "There is no connection between what you wrote to the OP."

    However, there is a connection in that any Israeli "study" done by the same government that runs an extensive propaganda initiative that attempts to minimize the number of casualties of the Nakba cannot be trusted to produce an objective "study" that asserts the same deceptions as its propaganda wing.



    "Israel tells schools not to teach nakba"
    https://www.thenational.ae/world/mena/israel-tells-schools-not-to-teach-nakba-1.515002
    EXCERPT "Palestinian 'catastrophe' is off limits, education ministry declares, advancing a curricula to present a more strident Zionist agenda."CONTINUED
     
  5. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Well-Known Member

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    Again .. No connection.
    The issue is numbers.. NOT propaganda.
    I wonder, Have you heard about the Jewish Nakba ?
     
  6. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We will not likely know the true number of Palestine's native non Jewish residents as long as Israelis hide related documents(1) and the only reason that Israelis would hide documents is that they refute Israeli propaganda.

    The only tangible reason the true number of native Palestinians systematically exterminated and/or expelled from their homes of generations matter is in the case of reparations from the Israeli government.

    The Israeli government, however is not nearly as honorable and generous as the German government in making reparations for its crimes. This is very likely because Israel's government has been comprised of the very same mass murdering war criminals responsible for the atrocities (Y. Shamir, M. Begin, A. Sharon etc)

    Re:
    Yes, far more frequently than the Palestinian holocaust.
    The primary difference is that Jews have been well compensated many times over for their losses while Palestine's native residents continue to face systematic executions, concentration camp confinement & ongoing land theft simply for the fate of living in a land coveted by foreign Zionists.






    (1) "Palestinians Uncover History of the Nakba, Even as Israel Cuts Them Off From Their Sources"
    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east...AGAZINE-hidden-stories-of-the-nakba-1.6010350

    EXCERPT "For Palestinian historians researching the 1948 exodus of their people, the greatest challenge is getting access to the few surviving documents of the period: most are locked away in Israeli archives" CONTINUED
     
  7. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Well-Known Member

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    Shame on you for putting those two words together.
    Go visit Ramallah or Nables .. YOU know knothing about that area ! Absolutly nothing.
    Concentration camps ? Give us a break ! The Palestinian cities are thriving !!
    They have great economy in Judea and Samaria .. the night clubs are busy and the markets are packed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  8. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am unaware that "holocaust" has become the registered trademark of "The Holocaust® Industry" as there have been numerous holocausts & concentration camps throughout history consuming far more people before, during & after WW2.
    To suggest that the suffering of Jews is somehow more profound than any other group of people because of their religion or ethnicity is arrogant racism at its worst if one is to consider all lives of equal worth

    If Gaza is the "thriving" oasis of your imagination, why are its destitute inhabitants systematically executed for trying to escape or fish beyond its walls & arbitrary, Israeli imposed borders?
    How "busy" could Gaza's nightclubs be if they have only 4 hours of electricity per day?

    Finally, I am hardly the only individual to regard that walled & heavily guarded enclave as the world's largest concentration camp:

    - "Gaza is a concentration camp, and it’s an American delusion not to recognize that"

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/concentration-delusion-recognize/

    EXCERPT "Lawrence Weschler, a writer of considerable mainstream prestige, is sick of prevaricating about Israel. It’s rabid. It has rabies. And Gaza is a concentration camp. Weschler has let loose chiefly because of the “remorseless” and “repetitively compulsive” aspect of Israeli violence. I believe that understanding is now widely shared in the liberal mainstream, and interventions like Weschler’s make it easier for others to speak up."CONTINUED


    - "Israeli official calls for concentration camps in Gaza and 'the conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters'"

    • Moshe Feiglin is Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset
    • He posted the message on his Facebook page at the weekend
    • Plan includes shipping the people living in Gaza across the world
    • IDF would 'exterminate nests of resistance' as part of his plan
    • The Gaza war has left more than 1,800 Palestinians dead
    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...fighting-forces-supporters.html#ixzz4r533poyd

    EXCERPT "Moshe Feiglin, Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset and member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ruling Likud Party, posted the inflammatory message on his Facebook page at the weekend.

    He lays out a detailed plan for the destruction of Gaza - which includes shipping its residents across the world - in a letter he addressed to the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

    In the letter he expresses his desire for the IDF to find areas on the Sinai border to establish 'tent encampments...until relevant emigration destinations are determined.'

    He says that the supply of electricity and water to the Gaza would be disconnected before being 'shelled with maximum fire power.'"CONTINUED
     
  9. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Well-Known Member

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    Was i talking about Gaza ?
    Read again what i wrote.
    I hope you know the fact that Gaza's situation is 80% on Hamas's sholders.
    10% Egypt's decision to close the border between Egypt and Gaza.. and 10% Abu Adolph Mazen which demends that Israel will not transfer gas and food to Gaza.
    Again .. Buy a ticket and go visit the area.
     
  10. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Hasbara Math?"


    The title of this thread that you started is about Palestinian refugees which, as you are aware, includes Gaza & the ever-diminishing West Bank.
    It was not Hamas who massacred countless native residents of Palestine, drove them from their homes and herded them into a fortified concentration camp and continues to exterminate them on a systematic basis via Israel's "Provoke-then-Massacre" M.O.(1)

    Re:
    I hope you will excuse those of us who are poorly versed in Hasbara math for disputing your opinion that the systematic slaughter of Palestine's native residents is "80% on Hamas' sholders (sic)" as still another independent study concludes that IDF deliberately targets civilians, medics & employs human shields contrary to international law(2)

    You may also be aware that Israel's Mossad helped to create Hamas(3) to fight the PLO & further internecine strife among the Palestinians.
    Hamas, like the innumerable resistance groups throughout history is simply doing what every resistance group does: it is resisting the world's oldest & most brutal foreign funded Occupation in modern history.

    I've already been to the area & spent about 3 weeks in a Palestinian refugee camp in S. Lebanon where I heard histories, saw old photos & witnessed scars from Nakba survivors whose stories are every bit as credible as those of legitimate holocaust survivors.

    Contrary to Hasbara Math, the absence of peace is 100% dependent on Israel's refusal to make peace(4) as is confirmed by relentless & provocative land theft (aka "Settlements").



    (1) "Moshe Dayan, in his diaries said: "Our strategy was always to provoke the Arabs and get an appropriate response so we could attack and smash them."
    http://www.sott.net/signs/signs154.htm


    (2) "Independent investigation details Israel’s deliberate targeting of civilians in Gaza"
    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/independent-investigation-deliberate/

    EXCERPT "A new independent medical fact-finding mission in Gaza has detailed Israel’s deliberate killing of Palestinian civilians in its summer 2014 attack, codenamed Operation “Protective Edge.” Acts documented in the investigation include the use of human shields, close-range murder of civilians, targeting of medics, and more.

    The report based on fieldwork and research conducted by Physicians for Human Rights-Israel (PHR-Israel), in conjunction with several other human rights and medical organizations, sits at a bulky 237 pages. PHR-Israel, in its words, “recruited eight independent international medical experts, unaffiliated with Israeli or Palestinian parties involved in the conflict,” leading specialists in numerous medical, health, and human rights fields. Jennifer Leaning, the Director of the Center for Health and Human Rights Department of Global Health and Population in Harvard University’s School of Public Health, was among those chosen to oversee the report."CONTINUED


    (3) "Hamas Was Founded by Mossad"
    http://wariscrime.com/new/hamas-was-founded-by-mossad/

    EXCERPT "It shows how the so-called Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) was founded by Israel’s Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks (Mossad) with the strategic purpose to prevent the creation of a Palestinian State."CONTINUED


    (4) "Israel Does Not Want Peace"
    http://www.haaretz.com/peace/1.601112

    EXCERPT "Rejectionism is embedded in Israel's most primal beliefs. There, at the deepest level, lies the concept that this land is destined for the Jews alone

    Israel does not want peace. There is nothing I have ever written that I would be happier to be proved wrong about. But the evidence is piling up. In fact, it can be said that Israel has never wanted peace – a just peace, that is, one based on a just compromise for both sides."CONTINUED
     
  11. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Well-Known Member

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    Duh .. I wish i had the spare time you have to write long answers and arguements ..
    You spent about 3 weeks in a Palestinian refugee camp in S. Lebanon where you heard histories ... When was that ? in the 70's ?? 50 Years ago ..
    Things have changed since than ..
    Israel continues to exterminate them ? what are the Palesh-tinians .,, Bugs ? Are you serious ?
    Last month an Arab shot an Israeli young woman in the head ... I did not see you or other Pro Islamo Jihados here condemn that ..
    Your mind is filled with poisonous poison.
    That's not good for you.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018

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