Part 24 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Oct 2, 2014.

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  1. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Part 24 is a continuation of Post your tough questions pertaining to God/Jesus/Holy Bible and I will do my best to clarify and make sense of it to those who are unaware...I still have questions and comments I haven't responded to in Part 7 thru 23.

    Also I might answer questions that are on other members threads and so this will keep me real busy with the many questions that I will answer from my point of view/perspective keeping in line with Scripture.

    I don't want my intentions to come across as converting you or whatever lol... but rather clear up things etc... so ask away.
     
  2. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    why do you love your god more than all the other gods?
     
  3. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    There is only one God in existence, He is the Eternal One, the Creator Almighty God who created the universe and all living beings.

    All other gods are false gods simply because they don't exist.

    And so there is only one God to love, the Christian Trinity God, the Father, Son, Holy Spirit!
     
  4. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    how do you know yours exists, and how do you know all the others don't?
     
  5. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Because He revealed Himself to the human race through His Son Jesus Christ our Lord Savior some 2,000 yrs. ago. Try reading the Holy Bible sometime, it won't hurt you, it will enlighten you to the truth.

    But hey if you don't want to believe... so be it...if that is the case then can anyone really say anything to you?

    And one of the reasons why there are no others is because Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me."---John 14:6 NLT
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    so the reason you believe your god is real is that a claim was made to that effect, correct? so it's the claim itself which determines whether a god is real?
     
  7. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The first one to come up with the lie, no matter how outrageous, gets to claim it as the truth. No proof required, especially for religious matters.
     
  8. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    You are witnessing, not teaching..

    Don't you see that?
     
  9. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes its called a circular reference. Proof of existence, in their eyes, comes from the very document in question. Its like being accused of murder and your proof you didn't do it is your claim that you didn't do it and expecting everyone in court to accept it.
     
  10. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    MittRyan, I have a "Tough Question Regarding Christianity"....

    what does Christianity teach about hypocrites and liars?


    :)
     
  11. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    of course. and it's almost charmingly juvenile. but my special interest is in their failure to consider the implications of accepting wild claims as evidence. that being, all claims ever made, no matter how crazy or just plain wrong, are necessarily therefore true. clearly most theists don't believe that to be the case, so they engage in falsehoods when asserting it's the reason for believing their god is the only god. it quite clearly, is NOT, but most seem very reluctant to admit to whatever the actual reason is. evidently thinking about one's true reasons is dangerous to faith.
     
  12. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Posted by WanRen View Post
    And God created mankind in His image.
    It is actually Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image,
    in the image of God he created them;
    male and female he created them.
    We are all children of God.

    It is actually Genesis 1:27 not 6 Genesis 6 I was supposed to post it about Noah's flood. Thank you for bringing it to my attention I have corrected it.
    The Gospel is about the beginning of mankind that started with the creation yes humankind was created the first humans were Adam and Eve and from Adam and Eve begotten all the rest of the human race.
    You seem to have many clues, clues that you probably yourself don't understand?
     
  13. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Posted by wanren View Post
    matthew 27:16this year there was a notorious prisoner, a man named barabbas.
    luke 23:19 a man who had been thrown into prison for an insurrection started in the city and for murder.

    yes no mention of specific crimes as to who he murdered, what was he rebelling about, who did he killed, one thing for sure barabbas was a bad man a criminal a notorious one.

    And based on your presentation that no specific crime of rape is mention in the bible in your honest opinion it means he is not a rapist no further discussion is needed. Would this also apply to genesis 6: 5 the lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. based on the bible in genesis 6 god acted to punished the wicked and evil and that the world was being over whelm with evil that god acted on it and that god did not punished or kill innocent babies as nothing is mention that he did in genesis 6 in fact there is not even an indication or implying sentence that god punished the innocent would you agree while in barabbas case the implication that he is or could also be a rapist is there wouldn't you agree?

    And why would pilate present barabbas to the jews to chose between jesus and barabbas if barabbas crime was against rome or murdered romans wouldn't it mean that if the jews chose barabbas they are against rome for choosing a criminal who rebelled against rome? It is very likely barabbas crime was against the jews that is why pilate presented two people that the jews consider as to have committed crimes against jews. Remembered jews were divided between the pharisees, sadducee and zealots the pharisee never like the zealots and vice versa.

    In the end Mr. Scrooge would realized he was mistaken and wrong from bah humbug to Merry Christmas to all!
     
  14. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Posted by WanRen View Post
    Christianity is not a fairy tale because God has proved it himself with actual historical Biblical events no magic, no trickery, no sorcery, no story telling, no fiction, no myth only through actual interaction and believable facts and evidences that would form and shape the history of human civilization. Example: There are no gods in Mt. Olympus. The departing of the Red Sea has been proven to be scientifically possible. There exist no flying horses. Jesus Christ walk and travel like any other humans not riding on some imaginary horse with wings but he rode a donkey or walk just like all humans do. There exist no magic wand like in Harry Potter that can create balls of fire. Jesus Christ miracles such as curing the lepers, raising Lazarus, or feeding the multitude are now scientifically and medically possible no trickery but actual positive results unlike magic or sorcery.

    I use Christian book the Bible to compare it with historical books in order to prove that the Bible is no fairy tale. The Bible is the blue print of history and the understanding of the origin of creation and humankind.
     
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Bible talks of other Gods. It does not speak of any Trinity.

    Right from the beginning in Genesis God states that man will be created in "Our" image, like "us". The Serpent in the garden was another God and the divine Sons of God that shag earthly maidens are also Gods. The "us" that the creator God El in Genesis is referring to.

    The claims of modern day Christians that the "us" is the Trinity is abject nonsense.

    1) The modern Trinity concept did not exist when Genesis was written so the writer could not have meant that.
    2) The Israelites believed in the existence of other Gods. There religion was monotheistic in that they were only to worship one of these Gods. It was not until during Persian times that the concept of "Only one God in existence" was incorporated into Judaism.
    3) In many places the Bible talks about other Gods/divinities.

    Examples of references to other divinities as "real Gods" is as follows.

    Leviticus 16 - God has the Israelites put a goat out into the desert to appease the desert God Azazel ! This "scapegoat" is to make appeasement for unintentional sins.

    We have the examples in Genesis 1:26 Man is made in "our image" "Like us"

    Genesis 6:2 When people had spread all over the world, and daughters were being born, some of the "Sons of the Gods" saw that these young women were beautiful, so they took the ones they liked https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 6&version=GNT

    These same "Sons of Gods" celebrate from time to time with the Creator God "EL" from time to time as shown in Job 1.
    Satan too is counted as a Son of God. Satan is obviously a God as he is able to wield Godly powers - bringing fire down from heaven and so on. Satan and God work together to test Job. Satan however complies with Gods command that he not kill Job. Satan does not act outside the will of God and are shown to have a "Father/Son" type of relationship.

    In Deuteronomy 32:8
    http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

    In Deuteronomy 32:8 El Elyon divides the nations giving each of his Sons a nation of their own. YHWH's portion (YHWH being a Son of Lord Elyon) gets the line of Jacob as his portion.

    Later in Deuteronomy 32:43 These same Sons of the most high are shown rejoicing and bowing before the most high.

    The Qumran text reads: O heavens, rejoice with Him Bow to Him, all divinities

    The Septuagint reads: O heavens, rejoice with Him Bow to Him, all Sons of the divinehttp://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

    Those in heaven are rejoicing with God. Those in heaven include other divinities/ Sons of the divine. You will of course find these passages altered in modern Bibles to omit references to other Gods - as is so often the case- as the editors do not want folks thinking that there are other Gods out there.

    In Psalm 82 again we have "El" Creator God of the Sumerian and Israelite Pantheon shown as head of the council of the Gods. http://www.jhsonline.org/Articles/article_144.pdf

    The Israelites do have a Trinity of sorts. It is a trinity of three Gods that the Israelites commonly worshiped. El - Creator God, Father, Asherah - His Consort and mother Goddess, and Baal - His Son.

    There is no modern Trinity anywhere in the Bible. In fact almost every time Jesus refers directly to the father he refers to him as someone other than himself. Jesus prays to the Father. Jesus asks the Father to "take this cup from my hand" not wanting to go through with God's plan.

    In fact in his last breath Jesus accuses his God of Forsaking him. Perhaps Christians want to think that Jesus was God but Jesus himself didn't.

    Paul nor the disciples believed that Jesus was God and neither did the Early Church or the Early Church fathers. Early Christians did not baptize in the name of the "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". They baptize in the name of Christ.

    Satan (one of Gods Sons again complete with Godly powers of his own) does not think Jesus is God. In fact Satan asks Jesus to worship him !

    It is hilarious that many Christians claim there are no other Gods but believe in Satan (who is obviously also a God having Godlike powers).

    Fortunately for those of us who don't like the fear-monger approach to spirituality, the OT does not cast Satan as some nasty fellow with horns whose sole desire is to torture people. Revelations in the NT is the only book that does this but this book was not even considered cannon in the early days and only included as cannon much later by the Church who was hell bent on the dogma of fear, destruction of knowledge, and what ever else it took "including forgery" to maintain their power.
     
  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I already corrected the passage number. No worries it is an easy mistake to make. The "clues" as you call them are quite easy to understand.

    The God(s) in Genesis are referred to as "Elohim" (Obviously a linguistic derivative from the Sumerian Creator God El - Enlil, Ellil Elyon). After all, Abraham was born in Sumeria and his father's Terah's God was El and Abraham would have been worshiping the Sumerian Gods and would have heard the Sumerian Creation story as a Child (which is the same story as we have in Genesis).

    Abraham later adopted one of these Gods as his sole God but this does not negate the other Gods out of existence. It just meant that his God "El Shaddai" was the one he chose for himself. This was common practise and each city would have their own protector God.

    Obviously when the Creator God in Genesis states that man will be created in "our" image, like "us" he is referring to other Gods. Later on when some of the Sons of Gods which have sex with fair earthly maidens are also these same or similar beings.
     
  17. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ALL sins. Verse 30.

    HaSatan of the Tanakh/Jewish belief is a servant of God destined to test mens faith in God. It's not HaSatans fault if man failed the test. Christianity has turned 'him' into an enemy of God and blames him when men fail.

    Personally I believe the temptation scenario was 'Matthews' way of expressing the temptations that must have faced Jesus. If Jesus believed he was Gods son then many temptations must have come his way. What better than to put it than blaming the devil.
    Matthew is trying to express Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and uses the Tanakh very often. In this 'temptation scene' he uses a theme recognised from the Tanakh by the Jews in one of the Prophets using the same terms Greek terms that are in the Greek translation of the Tanakh. Then he uses
    3 references from the Tanakh cited by Jesus.
    This is in line with the purpose of HaSatan. Test Jesus faith.

    Still, I've no doubt the christians on here will disagree with me.
     
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is a stark contrast to the Jewish conception of the Devil and the Christian one as you have pointed out. What can we make of this. Clearly only one perspective can be correct.

    Are we to believe the Jewish perspective of the Devil or the Christian perspective ? In Job we have the Devil as Son of God. Satan works in conjunction with God to test Job. Satan is shown to have great Godly powers but does not use these powers outside of Gods will.

    In Mark we have Jesus being tested (as Job was tested) by Satan. Mark does not give many details but Matt goes in to further detail. The story of Job and Matt are not the same but very similar in that in both cases Satan tests a servant of God.

    Again in Matt, Satan is presented as having Godly powers. He offers Jesus dominion over the whole world if he will bow to him.

    Now we know that Satan was sent by God to test Job but we are not told who sent Satan to Jesus. I think it is safe to assume that it both cases Satan is sent by God. It is silly to suggest that Satan would show up to test Jesus without God knowing or without Gods consent.

    In none of these stories do we have Satan cast as some nasty fellow who rules in hell. In none of these stories is any animosity between God and Satan. In fact in Job Satan is working with God and obviously visits from time to time for certain heavenly celebrations.

    There are demons in the synoptic gospels but no bad Satan fellow. Paul does not speak negatively about Satan either.

    It is only in revelation that Satan really comes alive. Suddenly Satan and God are enemies and Satan and hell is depicted as a place where Satan will reside and as a place of eternal torment.

    Revelations was thought of as spurious by at least some early Church fathers and was not accepted as cannon until the third century. Even then its canonicity was disputed and Orthodox Christianity to this day apparently does not use Revelations for scripture readings.

    Given that Revelations presents such a conflicting view of Satan compared to the OT and all of the NT except revelations .. my take is that Christian folk should not take the book seriously.

    Funny then that Revelations is one of the most followed books ... especially by the rapture touting crowd who see the end times as coming any day.
     
  19. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Actually all these so called mistranslations/misinterpretations are nothing more than denials designed to discredit the Bible.

    So in your mind they made up all these stories?...how do you know that? Were you there to see it yourself?...no need to answer cause I already know the answer...it is NO!

    The Bible is the Word of God. It came from God Himself, He is the author. Over hundreds of years, He chose certain individuals to write down exactly what He wanted to tell mankind. This process is called "inspiration"

    We read in Scripture, "Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding, or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God."---2 Peter 1:20-21 NLT

    Sorry but Constantine did not order the creation of the stories of the New Testament. Where did you get this falsehood from?...oh wait I know, from one of those atheist websites...eh?

    What we know about Constantine is that he called the Council of Nicea—the first general council of the Christian church, 325 A.D.—primarily because he feared that disputes within the church would cause disorder within the empire.

    Constantine, and the Council of Nicea, had virtually nothing to do with the forming of the canon. It was not even discussed at Nicea. The council that formed an undisputed decision on the canon took place at Carthage in 397, sixty years after Constantine's death.

    Mitt Ryan
     
  20. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with much of what you say.

    Regarding HaSatan./Satan. Which do we accept? The original belief (Judaistic) or the Christian view.

    As regards Job and the problem of why do the righteous suffer. This is a question that has been asked down the millenia. The Job story is not the first to ask the question. There is an earlier story asking the same question. It is just a story, not real. And I don't believe that the temptation is any more than what I suggested.
    Revelation is made up of many ideas taken from the Tanakh books of prophecy and can be understood by Jewish students to be so.

    Ooops bedtime.
     
  21. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No they're not. And even Christian scholars admit this. You simply ignore the truth proving your inability to understand reality. You've been shown actual mistranslations due to lack of appropriate words in different languages. Other things that are impossible. You simply ignore them without considering you might be wrong.
     
  22. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    A pretty bogus claim and reason. For God has revealed himself much later also. To Joseph Smith. As it had been a long long time since he gave a message to mankind and much had changed in humans. So he gave us another revelation. Yet you reject Gods latest revelation to mankind.
     
  23. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    That's just an opinion/belief/theory of yours that they didn't die out suddenly, there are scientists who believe they did die out suddenly.

    Those are the kinds of things we mere mortals will never know the answers to...so what we do to explain it we bring in theories.
     
  24. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Especially those who do it daily and show no sign of any repentance nor care if they repent.
     
  25. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    According to Scripture Moses did part the Red Sea and so I'll take the Word of God over you any day.

    Mitt Ryan
     
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