Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Mar 30, 2017.

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  1. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    No, that is a classic truth and nothing but the truth I expressed. I know it's hard for you to accept truth so it's easier for you to just deny it.

    It's true, if you atheists claim that Our Creator Almighty God doesn't exist then it stands to reason that your kind believe that nothing caused existence. There is no 3rd choice, either Our Creator Almighty God created everything or nothing as you atheists believe created everything, which on its face is absurd and illogical because the scientifically logically true statement tells us that "from nothing, nothing comes". You just can't get something from nothing and that's a fact.

    What?..."we don't know" is not the same thing as "not knowing"? Hey at least you atheist are consistent in being illogical, contradictory...lol

    You state you don't know how the universe began but yet you know it wasn't Our Creator Almighty God because atheism claims Our Creator Almighty God doesn't exist.

    Yep, there is that consistency of being illogical again being that your kind contradicts itself way too often.

    If you're going to state that you don't know how the universe began then be logical, consistent and honest by stating you don't know if Our Creator Almighty God exists and don't claim that He doesn't exist. At least be honest like those agnostics who simply state they don't know how the universe was created nor do they know if Our Creator Almighty God exists at all.

    Well there is evidence for the existence of Our Creator Almighty God but not everyone finds that evidence compelling or convincing; this does not mean such evidence is nonexistent. But anyway looking at it from a logical perspective it is more logical that the universe came into being from Our Creator Almighty God than what you atheist believe. I mean, Our Creator Almighty God is All-Powerful, He lives, He is Eternal, He is the first-cause that caused everything else to come into existence, He is something and not nothing.

    The scientifically logically true statement tells us "from something, something comes." Here let me give you an example of this simple logic. If I had sufficient lumber and hardware, I could design and build myself a chair. If I had nothing, no lumber, no hardware, I could not design and build myself a chair.

    I just illustrated simple elementary logic on how "from something, something comes" as well as how "from nothing, nothing comes"....Logic 101 in full display.

    We Read in Scripture:

    God’s Anger at Sin


    18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God. Romans 1:18-20 NLT
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You are making statements about the environment from which our universe came into existence!!

    That is a claim of knowledge that is not supported by evidence.

    As for our own universe, it is well known that the vacuum of space has energy, and thus we witness particles spontaneously coming in and out of existence.

    Your notion of the requirement of "cause" does not necessarily pertain to this universe as a whole. It's no more logical that suggesting that each particle that comes into existence in the vacuum of our space HAD TO have a "cause".
     
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  3. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    God was before "space" it did not exist until He spoke creation into existence, "God said" implies vibrations from speaking, and a fact of physics is physicist have tried to find the mass of subatomic particles and mass just don't exist if matter is not vibrating. There is a reason why God is called The Word.
     
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  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This still is a claim that there was a "cause". But, there is no evidence of there being a cause - as per an earlier post.

    Your attempt to stir in your weird version of physics certainly does not help your scramble to justify your religion!
     
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  5. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    The claim that everything needs a cause, but God itself doesn't, is a special pleading classic.
     
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  6. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Are you suggesting that this energy of vacuums is responsible for creation? Let me remind you that "the vacuum of space" did not exist until Our Creator Almighty God brought it into existence. In other words "space" is not eternal but Our Creator Almighty God is.

    He being an All-Powerful Eternal Being brought time, space, and matter into existence all at the same moment of creation. Let's not forget how science informed us that the universe had a beginning and so it is not eternal and so nothing in it is eternal but was caused to come into existence which makes the universe and everything in it one big effect.

    Physicist Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity discovery informs us of this. Now I know how you love science but are you going to deny what Albert's discovery implied?

    We Read in Scripture:

    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1 NLT

    In the beginning (there's time)
    God created the heavens (there's space)
    and the earth (there's matter)

    And don't forget what my Brother Todd told you in his quote below.

     
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  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What a pile of raving gibberish ... claiming to know what existed - and what didn't .. prior to the creation of the universe .. and we don't even know if the universe is Genesis is referring to .. could be the creation of the earth .. but nor do we know if any of that is true .. a story added to the Bible based on Near East Creation Myth that you have yet to understand.


    That the universe is mysterious ? -- do tell. Albert was not dumb enough to claim to know the mind of your God .. and none of his comments about God related to your God.

     
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  8. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    You forgot...matter. Our universe is composed of space-time-matter.

    Sorry but I have never suggested that the Christian Holy Bible is a physics manual. Again it's your misinterpretations, your misconceptions causing you to make a false statement.

    But I've always said that the Christian Holy Bible is the Word of God. I've also said that I believe and faith in Our Creator Almighty God. And many other things I have said, but never have I ever suggested that the Christian Holy Bible is a physics manual.

    Our Creator Almighty God never gave us a physics lesson on how He created the universe and everything in His universe.

    No, He had a more important message/revelation He wanted to convey to us and what is that message? Through the Bible, Our Creator Almighty God makes it clear that He loves us and has a plan to save us from the destructive power of sin.

    We Read in Scripture:

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,


    16 "For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 NLT
     
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  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Just read what I said.

    I said that there isn't evidence that there was a "cause" - a claim you have made.

    I gave the fact of particles coming into existence due to nature, NOT cause, as an example that your claim of the necessity of cause can not be accepted, given that you have no evidence.
    You do not have evidence that this universe is all there is. You can NOT claim to have evidence of what the environment was in which this universe began.
    No, this claim about Einstein's work supporting your religion can NOT be supported.


    >>Let me be clear. If you want to believe in a god, I'm fine with that.

    But, don't claim some sort of foundation in physics as evidence of your particular religion's creation story. Your Bible states that you get to accept your god on FAITH, not on evidence.

    Besides that, you can simply claim that god put together the environment in which this universe naturally arose, followed by the condensation of our solar system, followed by life naturally arising, followed by YOU. The real thing here is that your religious belief is NOT weakened by simply accepting what physics HAS shown.

    So, why try to twist physics into something that is clearly NOT KNOW or is even absolutely demonstrated to be false?

    You don't really have to do that. Your religion does NOT depend on your view that physics is all wrong!!
     
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  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Matter and energy are equivalent. Adding matter as a dimension like that doesn't make sense.
    No, your references to physics have been nonsensical. That is what I pointed to.
    As I pointed out, your god could have created the "super environment" in which this universe naturally occurred, with all that came after being a natural progression.

    Do you think your god could have done that?
     
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  11. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Well let's just be diplomatic here, my faith is irrelevant to you, likewise your faith is irrelevant to me...can we get an amen?...lol

    Not true. All four Gospels state that Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ was crucified on the Day of Preparation which was on a Friday, the day before the Sabbath (Saturday)

    We Read in Scripture:

    The Guard at the Tomb


    62 The next day, that is, after the day of Preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered before Pilate 63 and said, “Sir, we remember how that impostor said, while he was still alive, ‘After three days I will rise.’ Matthew 27:62-63 ESV

    Jesus Is Buried

    42 And when evening had come, since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathea, a respected member of the council, who was also himself looking for the kingdom of God, took courage and went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Mark 15:42-43 ESV

    Jesus Is Buried

    50 Now there was a man named Joseph, from the Jewish town of Arimathea. He was a member of the council, a good and righteous man, 51 who had not consented to their decision and action; and he was looking for the kingdom of God. 52 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 53 Then he took it down and wrapped it in a linen shroud and laid him in a tomb cut in stone, where no one had ever yet been laid. 54 It was the day of Preparation, and the Sabbath was beginning. Luke 23:50-54 ESV

    Jesus' Side Is Pierced

    31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away. 32 So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who had been crucified with him. 33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. John 19:31-33 ESV
     
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  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This is not true in cases where one's religion is used as the fundamental argument for changes that affect others.

    For example, religiously based justifications for denying marriage of same sex couples DOES affect others. Religiously based justifications for laws restricting women's personal health care decisions DO affect others. Etc.
     
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  13. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Well my statement was just between Mircea and I and not directed at others. Mircea basically said my faith was irrelevant to him and I responded back and told him likewise his faith was irrelevant to me. So I did not say my statement held true for others but just between Mircea and I.

    So your statement is irrelevant to the statement I made that concerned just Mircea and I which essentially makes your statement off topic, out of context, invalid.

    Sorry but that's what happens when you go off topic from the original discussion. We certainly weren't discussing marriage for same sex couples neither were we discussing women's personal health care decisions.

    When I get to those topics I'll holla for you to join the discussion...lol
     
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I think you totally missed what Mircea was saying.

    Your RELIGION may mean nothing, but the issue is that people want to use their religion to affect others.

    You want to use the government to force your personal religious precepts on others, whether or not your religion means anything to them.

    And, that isn't acceptable.
     
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  15. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    So you know what Mircea was thinking? Nah, I don't believe it, you can't even interpret Scripture correctly let alone interpret what Mircea was saying. Be honest, it is you speaking for Mircea using your own thoughts not his...lol
     
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  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You're dodging again.
     
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  17. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but that's not Christianity...how is it you can not know that? You have been sleeping at the wheel...haven't you? Well you should be glad I'm here to awaken you so that you could know and be made aware of how one receives forgiveness according to the Christian faith.

    Only Christians will receive forgiveness of their sins, all others will be punished for their sins. One has to accept Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior in order to be saved. The faith of Christianity is perfectly clear that's the only way to be saved. But of course if you don't want to believe that...so be it. Nobody is here forcing one's belief onto another. We all have the gift of free will that Our Creator Almighty God has given us. So if you don't want to believe what we Christians believe in...fine so be it.

    We Read in Scripture:

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,


    6 Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6 NLT
     
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  18. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    I know you intentionally ignore that passage in the Hebrew texts which state that one's sins are forgiven by the high priest on the Day of Atonement.

    And, you don't even need to talk to the high priest, or see him or even be in Jerusalem on the Day of Atonement to be forgiven of all your sins.

    That is contrary to what the Hebrew texts say. Anyone -- Jew or not -- can be forgiven for all their sins on the Day of Atonement.

    If you reject that, then Jesus cannot be your messiah, because you have just admitted Yahweh is in error, and if Yahweh erred, then the Hebrew prophecies on which you base your claim that Jesus is the messiah are suspect.

    If you claim that Yahweh changed his mind and wanted to prove in a manner most gruesome that Jesus will save you, then you have just admitted that there are no guarantees that you will be "saved" because the Yahweh-Jesus-Holy Flatulence-thing is wishy-washy.

    You have also contradicted the claims of the Divine Pyromaniac who repeatedly stated the descendant of Gomer, Gog and Magog are destined to spend eternity in the fiery pit.

    If you are an American, and your ancestors are from the British Isles, then you are a descendant of either Gomer or Gog, so I can see why you would desperately delude yourself into believing you're gonna be saved.

    Again, that contradicts earlier promises made by Yahweh.

    Are you calling Yahweh a liar?

    Because that would make the Jesus-thing a liar, too, right? You know, since Jesus is Yahweh is Jesus except when it's Yahweh's turn to be the Holy Flatulence.

    What I believe is irrelevant.

    No one needs to be saved because there is no after-life and no one has a soul. Those things, in particular a soul and Hell, were concocted by the Greeks base on their ignorance of a great many things.

    Good, I'm glad you agree that prohibiting mandatory school prayer is a good thing.

    That's John talking, not Jesus and John's gospel conflicts with the other three gospels.

    One of the many contradictions John makes is that Jesus died on a different day than what Matthew, Mark and Luke claim, so John has no credibility, or assuming John is right, then Matthew, Mark and Luke have no credibility.

    How is it the Yahweh-Jesus-Holy Flatulence-thing doesn't know when "his only begotten son" (snicker) died?
     
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  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    There is no legitimacy in seeing a date difference that has shown up over the last 2000 years as impugning any of these witnesses.

    And, that's even more so when the date difference is totally irrelevant to anything of substance.
     
  20. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    It is legitimate and in no way irrelevant.

    Those gospels are claimed to be the word of a god-thing, and this god-thing's word contradicts.

    The logical conclusion by any reasonable person is that this god thing is fallible, or this god-thing not infallible.

    How is it the Yahweh-thing doesn't know which day "his only begotten son" (snicker) died?

    When you're on trial for murder, and some witness claim you committed the murder on Thursday while others claim you committed it on Friday, that is reasonable doubt, but since you claim the witnesses are infallible or that their testimony is irrelevant, then I hope you enjoy your last meal before they stick you with the "Needle o' Death."

    It is also claimed that translators are filled with the Holy Flatulence and/or are connected to the god-thing, so you cannot claim it is an error in translation, unless you're willing to admit your god-thing is fallible.

    There are literally 100s of errors, contradictions and conflicts between the four gospels, so their value as testimonial evidence is worthless.
     
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  21. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Um, no, the heavens refers to our Solar System, not the entire Universe.
     
  22. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Your god-thing didn't hand the Commandments to X-Moses. X-Moses already knew them since the Egyptians wrote them 1,200 years earlier.

    You fail to understand that no such person as "Moses" exists/existed.

    "Moses" is not a Hebrew word nor is it a Canaanite word (same thing.)

    The word "moses" is Egyptian and it is rendered in Egyptian as m-s-s and the Hebrews adopted the same rendering as m-s-s.

    The word m-s-s means "emanated from" and it was always prefixed with the name of a god.

    Ptahmoses = emanated from Ptah
    Dedumoses = emanated from Dedu
    Rameses = emanated from Ra
    Tutmoses = emanated from Toth
    Anmoses = emanated from An
    Amenmoses = emanated from Amen and so on.

    X-Moses' real name was prefixed with the name of an Egyptian god.

    Given the time frame, X-Moses' real name was likely Anmoses or Amenmoses.

    The Yahweh-thing fanatics Hilkiah and Jeremiah who wrote Deuteronomy and most of the Deuteronomic Histories also edited Genesis and the phony Exodus Trilogy (Exodus, Numbers and Leviticus) and they truncated X-Moses' real name to just "emanated from" (Moses) because they would have found the name of an Egyptian god highly offensive, not just to themselves, but to Yahweh, and besides, both of them hated X-Moses with a passion.

    Your lack of knowledge of all things-biblical is truly astonishing.

    Had you actually read the texts and comprehended them, then the first thing to slap you in the face should be the irrefutable fact that all members of the tribes of Reuben, Simeon and Levi mentioned in the Exodus Trilogy have exclusively Egyptian names.

    Yes, X-Moses, Aaron, Phineas, Dathan et al are all exclusively Egyptian names.

    All the names of other tribe members mentioned in the Exodus Trilogy have exclusively Canaanite names.

    That should be your first clue the Exodus never happened.

    The second clue should be the fact that Classical Biblical Hebrew -- separate and distinguishable from modern Hebrew -- is nothing more than the Ugarit dialect of Aramaic without the case endings, you know, nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, instrumental, locative, vocative, et al.

    Since Ugarit was destroyed before the Exodus, and its people killed, enslaved or fled to other lands and it remained vacant and uninhabited for the next 3,222 years before being rediscovered in 1928, that is proof the Hebrews always lived in Canaan.

    The last piece of evidence is the archeology, which tells us there was no influx of people anywhere in the region except one area in the mountains where the tribe of Reuben was and the other south of Jerusalem where the tribe of Simeon was. Since the Levites lived amongst all the tribes, they wouldn't have their own territories.

    Perhaps now, maybe, just possibly, y'all might be able to figure out why no one can find any historical basis for X-Moses.

    Well, no Egyptian parent would be stupid enough to name their kid "emanated from."

    That's like having a kid named Albertson -- son of Albert -- and you find the name "Albert" offensive so you just hack it off and call the kid "son" and then everyone screams, "I can't find any historical basis for someone named 'son'".

    Ya think?
     
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  23. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    So sorry but you're wrong again, obviously it's because you have misinterpreted Scripture or perhaps you're reading material from uncreditable sources.

    Space and planets were created for God’s glory. We know that stars and planets outside our solar system exist, and these, too, were created for the glory of God.
    Scripture tells us the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament shows His handiwork.

    We Read in Scripture:

    To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David.

    19 The heavens declare the glory of God,

    and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Psalm 19:1 ESV

    When we see the vast number of stars, then read that scientists have discovered thousands upon thousands of galaxies, each containing millions of stars, we should be standing in reverent fear of a God so immense to make all that and call it the work of His fingers!!! ...whoa!!! such an awesome feat!!!...such Divine Power indeed!!!

    We Read in Scripture:

    3 When I look at the night sky and see the work of your fingers—

    the moon and the stars you set in place— Psalm 8:3 NLT

    Our Creator Almighty God also revealed to us that He counts the number of the stars, and calls them all by name.

    We Read in Scripture:

    4 He counts the stars

    and calls them all by name. Psalm 147:4 NLT

    It is absolutely impossible for us mere mortals to know how many stars there actually are, not to mention the "name" of every star!...no siree!..how super remarkable is Our Creator Almighty God eh!

    He has also told us that His hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and His right hand has stretched out the heavens and when He call to them, They stand up together.

    We Read in Scripture:

    13 It was my hand that laid the foundations of the earth,

    my right hand that spread out the heavens above.

    When I call out the stars,

    they all appear in order.” Isaiah 48:13 NLT

    So yes indeed..."the heavens"...refer to the entire universe and not just our solar system...the whole works that is in this "space"!

    Again I repeat....whoa!!! such an awesome feat!!!...such Divine Power indeed!!!
     
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  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    There is crystal clear evidence of the expansion of our universe that caused the precipitation of stars, planets, etc.

    If you really want to claim that is HOW your god created our heavenly bodies, fine.

    But, evidence of various kinds shows how the structure of this universe progressed to include galaxies, stars, planets, moons progressed - with Earth just being one planet of trillions.

    Of course you COULD claim god created each individual blob of mass in our universe as individual entities - that the evidence found to date is fake.

    But, then you would also have to claim that your god faked the evidence so clearly seen today.

    I really think you should not assume your god lied like that. In fact, I don't believe you should assume what early writings are about physics. Even more to the point, the allegories established in the Bible carry meaning related to theology, human behavior, etc. - NOT to cosmology.
     
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  25. Falena

    Falena Cherry Bomb Staff Member Past Donor

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