Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Moses split the Red Sea, Elijah called fire down from heaven to consume his enemies. Jesus couldn't even make a donkey, he had his buddies steal one for him.
     
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  2. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Godly means having or even aspiring to the righteousness of God.
    Godly behavior means showing compassion, forgiveness, love,
    grace, truthfulness etc.. The greatest of all the prophets in the bible
    was John the Baptist, it was said of him, "John did no miracle."
     
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  3. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    John the Baptist was a lunatic. He is one of the nuttiest people in the Bible.
     
  4. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You need to define what you mean. In the OT it speaks of one preparing the way
    for the coming of the Messiah, a kind of Elisha. We take that to be John.
    Sure, you can take it that ALL the figures of the bible are "nutty." Except the ones
    like Judas, Jezebel; Saul, the Pharisees and Sadducees etc who stood up to these
    nut cases.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  5. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From my last post.regarding Psalm 22.
    This is a prayer that carries us from great suffering to great joy. Despite apparent rejection by his friends and God, David believed God would lead him out of despair. He looked forward to the time when God would rule over the whole earth.

    This was not taken from Jewish sources but it is the heading of the Psalm in the NLT Bible. (Life Application Study Bible)

    The Jews believed the Presence of Jahweh was in the Temple in Jerusalem and extended as far as the borders of Israel. That's why David pleaded with Saul not to drive him from the land and allow him die out of God's presence. After the Exile the Jews realised that Jahweh's influence was everywhere and yet the Temple was still the central place to worship. The synagogue (Biet Kenessit) was brought into being in Babylon. It required a quorum of ten. The Temple was still the place for a yearly visit while it stood.

    Blood sacrifice never washed away sins - it covered them. Personal repentance was required - Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.

    Thus the OT does not mention a sacrificial Messiah. That is Christian teaching. The Jews certainly did expect a Messiah - a human leader who would lead Israel and bring all the world to recognise Jahweh as the true God.

    I'm now an agnostic. I simply post as one who has studied the Bible and rejected MOST of it for the following reasons.

    1. All the 'Mosaic' laws were simply adapted from earlier and contemporary (to the 7th century BCE) rules and regulations. Compare the 10 commandments with earlier codes. The writers of these codes even attribute them to their respective gods (Hammurabi's code he claims was given by Marduk - and so on) The 10 'commandments' were given by Jahweh.
    2. The early stories (creation etc) are all adapted from even earlier Middle East stories. Some based on events like the flood. Not a world destroying flood but a local destructive flood
    3. There is no evidence for any of the Patriarch's, of Hebrew slavery in Egypt, or of an exodus of those slaves to Palestine - an Egyptian territory.
    4. There is evidence of a tribe called Israel in Palestine in the 13th century BCE.
    5. There is evidence of an uprising of the tribes in Palestine against their Egyptian masters. It is more than likely that the Israelites were among those tribes who eventually threw out the Egyptians.
    6. It is more than likely the Israelites were the strongest tribe and took over Palestine under their leader - David?
    7. A study of the times and conditions show no likelihood that this David was ever as powerful as is described in the Bible. The stories are exaggerated to make him a hero. Most probably the influential king of that period was Omni - left out of the Bible because he was a pagan king.
    8. Solomon did not have stables at Megiddo (miles from Jerusalem) - attributed to him in the Bible. These are 200 year later and belonged to Ahab - close to his capita.

    Enough of the OT.

    9. The Nativity stories of Matthew and Luke are simply made up stories. Matthew uses OT scriptures which are clearly nothing to do with Jesus or his birth. It's an inexcusable use of OT scriptures. Hosea 11 speaks of Israel and its failings. Using one verse makes a mockery of scripture. There was no Massacre of the Innocents. This reference is to Rachel weeping over her children in Egypt. (Remember it's all just a story). Matthew uses Bethlehem Ephratah because David was supposedly born there.
    My own belief is that Jesus the preacher was born in Bethlehem - near Nazareth. It makes more sense. That's where Josephs property was - the subject of the census being tax on property. Joseph would not have had property on Bethlehem Ephratah. It was a 1000 years since David had lived and died and Bethlehem had gone through much, including Babylonian exile. Many of the Jews remained in Babylon and others had fled throughout the Middle East - including Egypt.

    Jesus was a Jewish Preacher, His disciples wanted him to be the Messiah the Jews longed for. In Gethsemane he showed them they were wrong. 'Put up your swords. this isn't my way'. They fled.

    Resurrection? down to belief. It's not hard to convince people who are seeking something different. Paul used Hebrew and Greek philosophy to convince the Greeks. Mohammed convinced o few of his 'visions'. And today we have JW's, Mormons, etc etc.
     
  6. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you misunderstood what I had said, it's the same old thing with you...at times misunderstanding what a person says. Obviously Incorporeal meant the Lord's initial work of creation had been completed of which I'm in agreement with but I go on to further say and illustrate that God is still creating, which should be obvious to everyone, I mean isn't life a continual process, living beings live and eventually die but new life starts and keeps the process going...on and on. Stars dies out but are reformed many times from the same matter. Here below is what I said, now read it again slowly and carefully then maybe perhaps you will get the picuture.

    "It's proper to speak in two ways of God "creating."

    Let's look closely as to what Genesis says: "So the creation of the heavens and the earth and everything in them was completed. On the seventh day God had finished His work of creation, so He rested from all His work. And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, because it was the day when He rested from all His work of creation."---Gen. 2:1-3 NLT

    Clearly it is obvious that the passage neither says nor implies that no additional creations would be forthcoming, but simply that the Lord's initial work of creation had been completed.

    Common sense tells us that not everything God would create was created at that point. After all, each human soul is a later creation, since the soul is created directly by God at the moment of conception--it does not derive from the souls of the parents.

    But God creates in another sense. Genesis 1 tells us that God brought into being all matter that would ever exist. He created the various parts of the universe out of that primordial matter

    Everything in the universe stars, comets, and nebulae, have formed, disintegrated and re-formed many times from the same matter. The same is true for all the animal and plant life on earth.

    While we see that Genesis emphasizes the finality of God's creation of primordial matter and of all the first plants and animals and human beings with which He filled the newly created earth, while scientists point out (whether they realize it or not) that God continues to create new things in the material realm in the sense that He fashions them from the preexistent matter of His initial creation.

    And so in conclusion our Lord Almighty God continues to create."
     
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  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    You Latter day Saints deserve a great deal of credit for having what appears to me to be phenomenally accurate teachings on the State of the Dead......

    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org...apter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

    I've been studying with Latter day Saints Sisters and Elders since August and I really do feel more of the fire of the Holy Spirit flowing in my life each day.
     
  8. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting...thanks for sharing Dennis!
     
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  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    You Latter day Saints are also the denomination of Christianity that has reached a critical mass where the positive aspects of Genesis eleven verse six can kick into gear............... and I suspect that the "Artistic Value" of "The White Horse President Prophecy" can BE GREATER THAN the national debt of the USA!

    If my assertion is too optimistic .... my apologies in advance... but I am quite serious....... there is a level of positive meaning in this verse:
    Genesis 11:6
    "And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."

    "The White Horse President prophecy and saving the USA constitution and dollar."



     
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    I know that I know that I know that you Latter day Saints have a special ability to hear the Holy Spirit and I suspect that you may be shown to read this first.......

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...rumps-situation.582936/page-2#post-1072395050
    Is Mr. Jarrin Jackson the best at analyzing President Trump's situation?



    My wife is a gifted Pentecostal who was somehow told by the Holy Spirit that I was going to be her husband... and that she should fast and pray for me for thirty five days..... and she did it.... back in the year 2000.

    I have been trying to better understand how she can hear the Holy Spirit so clearly so in the year 2020 I actually completed twenty of Dr. Kevin Zadai's online courses....... I do feel that near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai will play the role of an Ambassador between Latter day Saints and the Evangelical Christian community.

    A Latter day Saint pilot friend of Dr. Zadai was shown by the Holy Spirit, (perhaps twenty five years ago)... to give him two hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of flight training lessons so that he ended up qualified to fly the jets that he was working in as a flight attendant for twenty nine years!

    I've been praying for two years now as to whether or not Jesus wants me to be re-baptized again by Latter day Saint Elders... but what the Holy Spirit showed me so far is that I also have to act as an Ambassador between Latter day Saints and Jews.. .and between Latter day Saints and Evangelical Christians like my wife.... and the churches that she would want to attend regularly.

    The following is on a Latter day Saint discussion forum....
    Greater unity between Latter day Saints and Pentecostals ....

    ... this is on the same forum... on their "Jewish Beliefs Board".....

    Jewish sailors went to South America around one thousand BCE according to Chassidic website...

     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    As of today... January 22, 2021..... it sure seems to me that the Constitution of the USA is hanging by a thread........
    and........
    as a Latter day Saint you are in an interesting position to marshall other Latter day Saints and investigators into something that
    could be huge...... .I explained it here:


    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...tion-and-dollar.570833/page-3#post-1072386098

    The White Horse President prophecy and saving the USA constitution and dollar.



    Should L.D.S. support rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple?
     
  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is now two thousand years older than he was at the time of his death, burial and resurrection in the first century, and now in these latter days Jesus is able to appear to near death experiencers and transform their lives......... and step by step raise up His Warrior Bride who will soon astonish all the world as She brings in the lost!

    In my first discussion with Latter day Saint Sisters in either August or September of 2020 we spoke about the near death experience of little Colton Burpo.... and the LDS Sisters did great..... they clearly thought of Pastor Todd Burpo, a Westlyian minister.... as their brother in Messiah Yeshua - Jesus who was learning quickly.... even from his very young son who had a brush with death at three years and ten months of age.




     
  13. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Jesus is very interesting even from a history point of view.
    Men and women today keep talking about Jesus.
    But nobody will be talking about The Wyrd of Gawd in a rather shorter period time. I do not see how I will be discussed either later on.

    Trump will be discussed for a matter of several more months.

    Bush 43 is seldom mentioned. Obama has been in the dustbin of history.

    Biden is an interloper.
     
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  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    Near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai was shown that there is really only one HERO in heaven.....
    it is Messiah Yeshua - Jesus..... and that is so wonderful to know.......
    attempting to compete with King David got King Saul into so much trouble.....
    it is great to know that I never have to attempt to compete with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus the King of all kings... and the LORD of all lords........


    Jesus wept when telling near death experiencer about the seventy two hours




    It is my firm belief that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is somehow raising up King David for his people Israel BUT..... King David will wisely refuse the title king..... but will instead refer to himself as merely a price...... i assume his reasoning will be that Messiah Yeshua Jesus is his King............... so he can be merely a prince......... not a king......


    Ezekiel 34:24

    And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  15. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    God is in control, He controls all things for His perfect purpose. God is sovereign and so He has complete control over everything. Everything that happens is either caused or allowed by Him. Our free will are only free to the extent that God allows us that freedom and no farther and so no one's free will trumps the sovereignty of God. Everything that God has done or will do is designed to save us from the punishment of sin but He is giving us the free will choice to make that will determine our destiny. The birth, the life, the ministry, the miracles, the betrayal, the death, the resurrection of our Lord Savior Jesus Christ was all planned by our sovereign God in order to provide salvation for the millions upon millions of people.

    We Read in Scripture:

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

    16 "For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
    18 "There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants." John 3:16-21 NLT
     
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  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think there may be more to this .....

    https://www.near-death.com/science/research/future.html#a03


    This fits with the idea that Ezekiel chapter thirty seven.... as opposed to being a one time event..... God has the power to do many, many, many Ezekiel chapter thirty seven events..... that fit with Revelation chapter twenty as well as Romans nine, ten and especially chapter eleven.

    The purpose is to work out salvation for more and more humans... in multiple time lines.

    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/nt/rom/11?lang=eng


    32 For God hath aconcluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    33 O the depth of the ariches both of the bwisdom and cknowledge of God! how dunsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past efinding out!




    Could the prophet Elijah have altered history if he had NOT........




     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  17. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Well yes, to a certain degree we can change our future. For example on a certain date you have made plans but because something has come about beyond your control which prohibits you from going through with your plans you have to cancel your plans, so that right there changed your future. But God knew all along that you would have to cancel your plans so in God's perspective the future is fixed, while in your perspective the future got changed.

    God is omniscient; He knows everything actual and possible. God is also eternal. As the eternal, omniscient God, He has lived our yesterdays, our todays, and our tomorrows, the past, present, and future. God is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End.

    We Read in Scripture:

    6 And he also said, "It is finished! I am the Alpha and the Omega—the Beginning and the End. To all who are thirsty I will give freely from the springs of the water of life." Revelation 21:6 NLT
     
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  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who knows the nature of God- Certainly not you mere Mortal - but, even if God is all of the above - so what ? - this makes no difference in your life .,,,

    Unless - God takes offense to you taking her name in vein all the time - and decides to punish you.
     
  19. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    I'm impressed you have kept this up for so long. The only real tough question for Christianity is the lack of evidence. That is really the only question that really matters.
     
  20. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    What I have came to believe in is multiple time lines......
    and each time line fulfills Ezekiel chapter thirty seven.....
    so.... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus in His resurrected form can
    resurrect all of the dead who have ever lived....... but in a moment in time
    that would appear to us to be the past.......
    and then a new time line is spun off from that moment.....
    that is actually different from what we know of as the past or future.

    So I now believe that TIME rather than looking like a straight line...
    ultimately comes to look like a tree... with both a trunk or major time line....
    but there are also roots as well as branches and smaller and smaller branches......

    What you Latter day Saints teach about the dead being led to salvation....
    I believe was also shown to the gifted Pastor Rick Joyner in his book The Torch and the Sword.....



    The Torch and the Sword by Rick Joyner

    So I really do believe that you Latter day Saints are correct about
    the deceased being preached to even in Hades......
    I think that this is one of the most profoundly encouraging idea that I
    ever heard taught by a church.......

    This is the near death experience by a Latter day Saint......

    https://www.near-death.com/science/experts/widdison-and-lundahl.html

    ....
     
  21. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    All of this depends on how powerful Messiah Yeshua - Jesus now is in His resurrected Glorious Body.....

    My guess is that new time lines have more and more and more and more of the Holy Spirit poured out on all flesh.... so that we make better and better and better choices in these new time lines........

    Former Atheist Howard Storm was shown a future earth where the hearts of the fathers had been turned to the children.. and the hearts of the children turned to the fathers... which is a massive truth that you Latter day Saints do an excellent job of teaching about......

    https://www.near-death.com/religion/christianity/howard-storm.html#a04

     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  22. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    The Bible is absolute truth. Christians believe that, it's just that we can't prove it, nor can anyone else disprove it.
    The Bible itself claims to be perfect/inerrant/infallible. The Bible is the perfect, inerrant, infallible Word of God!

    We Read in Scripture:

    7 "The instructions of the Lord are perfect,
    reviving the soul.
    The decrees of the Lord are trustworthy,
    making wise the simple." Psalm 19:7 NLT

    5 "Every word of God proves true.
    He is a shield to all who come to him for protection." Proverbs 30:5 NLT

    6 "The Lord’s promises are pure,
    like silver refined in a furnace,
    purified seven times over." Psalm 12:6 NLT
     
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  23. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Donor

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    You Latter day Saints are noted for really good senses of humour.......
    better than in most denominations of Christianity where excessive fear of hell or Purgatory......
    tends to make people a little too serious.......

    So you may rather enjoy this one.......
    a Pentecostal guy from Canada deserves a lot of credit for his message that he gave to Mr. Justin Trudeau back in 2007......


    "Humour can be an effective way to get all of this across to a pretty large audience."

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ed-the-biden-campaign.584284/#post-1072398199



    Could P. M. Justin Trudeau have destroyed the Biden campaign??????

    (Facebook generated link... just in case you still use it) :

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/could-p-m-justin-trudeau-have-destroyed-the-biden-campaign.584284/&fbclid=IwAR0Vyah1OkZ39EhFhke1id-ChUFlfsarOzEECA1yJNC1YW_YHFPl2m1hVGU
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  24. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Drowning everything on earth but things on an ark is not very compassionate. So, I disagree with your godly definition.
     
  25. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Well as long as this site is running and I'm here, my thread will continue on, I'm currently answering questions and responding to comments from thread 10 and so I have a lot of work ahead of me. And from time to time I do answer questions/comments from the current thread which is 38 that we're on right now.

    So is your question, why is there a lack of evidence for the existence of God? Or are you just making a statement that there is a lack of evidence for the existence of God?
    If you are just making a statement then are you saying there is evidence but just a lack of it? Please clarify so I can understand fully before I attempt to answer whatever it is you are asking/commenting about.
     

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