Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Well said! Excellent post Brother Injeun, again thank you so much for your contributions to this thread.

    :salute: I salute you Brother Injeun!
     
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  2. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    What is "debunked"? It is self evident that if Atheism is true, Christians have nothing to worry about because they'll cease to be. But that if Christianity is true, Atheists have everything to worry about because they will not find rest in death.
     
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  3. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    And that "proves" what? What truth does it reveal in the discussion as to whether or not a god exists? What exactly does it show about belief in a god? If the only reason I "believe" in a god is because I'm hedging my bets over the existence of an afterlife can I be said to truly believe in a god? Hell, what god does it even point you to? You're a Christian...but what if the true God is Allah? Shouldn't you believe in Allah because you are risking your soul if you don't? What if the true God is Odin? Vishiva? Baal?
     
  4. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    It's called Pascal's Wager, and it's complete bull ****.
     
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  5. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Never heard of Pascal. That which is self evident and reasonable regarding two opposing concepts carried to their logical end, isn't BS. We place and heed road signs because they exist to save lives. The gospel of Jesus Christ is a road sign for the salvation of souls.
     
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  6. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    It goes like this: if you believe in God and he doesn't exist, you don't lose anything. If you believe in God and he does exist, you gain everything. If you don't believe in God and he doesn't exist, you gain nothing. If you don't believe in God and he does exist, you lose everything. So you should just believe!

    Yes, it's garbage. It first requires you to pretend that there are no other religions besides Christianity and that there are not multiple denominations of Christianity. It also requires you to believe that belief is a choice -- that you could whole-heartedly believe tomorrow that the core of the earth is made of Swiss Cheese just by willing it so -- this is also BS. It also ignores the fact that many people (myself included) have experienced negative effects when subscribing to Christianity. Additionally, it requires us to believe that God is a petty, evil bastard.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2023
  7. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    If I believed he existed, then yes...I would also believe that his a petty, evil bastard. His track record very clear on that.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Evolution doesn't conflict with the existence of a god. It might be seen as conflicting with the views of a particular religion, but that's a different issue. The concept of god can not be disproven by science. I think it's like the idea that the formation of our solar system conflicts with god.

    Evolution takes a long time to show easily noticeable change in more complex animals. One can watch evolutionary change in fruit flies and other less complex life forms. In fact, most if not all our agriculture has been modified by humans taking over the selection process. Humans created modern apples, grains, cattle, etc., through providing the selection that is central for evolution.

    Evolution says that an existing animal of today could not possibly become human. Similarly, a dog can not possibly evolve into a cat.

    One can read about evolution in general and human evolution in particular.

    There are summaries concerning human evolution in places like:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_human_evolution

    For humans, "recent" means the last 50,000 years.
     
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  9. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    What I said isn't proof of anything except to draw attention to the potentially negative long term effects of our choices in life. By fixating on Atheism and evolution, one ignores the warning trumpet of Christianity. It's a warning. Which God does Atheism prepare one to meet? Why would someone embrace the idea of evolution and the advancement of animals thru natural selection, but not the perfecting of mankind thru faith in Jesus Christ and the practice of his gospel principles?
     
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  10. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    Before I prepare to meet a god I need to be convinced one exists. I'm not going to spend my one life preparing for something that I have no reason to believe in.
    We all have this ONE life. Too many waste that life preparing for the next one with absolutely no proof that it exists.
     
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Every religion that has ever postulated an afterlife and promises to burn all those that didn't find their religion can say the same thing you do.

    Plus, remember that "believing" is not enough to get to heaven - at least according to Jesus.
     
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  12. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Atheists do not believe in a god. How can we prepare to meet an non-existent god?
     
  13. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    That's all true. I made a comparison between Atheism and Christianity. What people do with it is up to them. My point is that immersing oneself in evolution and Atheist dogma doesn't exactly secure ones status and make accountability to God a fantasy. If God is real, can you wish him away or disbelieve him to have never existed. Can you or I, by taking thought, cause the other to not be? It would be magical thinking. There's really nothing so strange about Christianity. It is simply accountability to a perfect Father.
     
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  14. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I said that if Atheism is true, Christians have nothing to fear because the will simply cease to be at death. But if Christianity is true, Atheists have much to consider because they won't simply cease to be, but will stand before God. So NWolfe35 said there are a number of different Gods beside the God of Christianity. So I asked him which God does Atheism prepare him to meet. Now you say there is no God. So I ask, what if you are wrong. So you will say what if there is no God. Which brings it back to my statement that if Atheism is true, Christians have nothing to fear. But if Christianity is true, Atheists have much to fear. It is all about accountability. I'm not God or anyone's judge. I'm just talking about concepts.
     
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  15. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    What if you are wrong and Islam is true, or Hinduism is true, or Judaism is true or any of the thousands of forgotten religions from the history of mankind?
     
  16. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    As an agnostic atheist, I have nothing to fear. If god exists and wants to talk about it we can. I stand behind my thinking. If god then felt a need to destroy or torture me it would just be evident that he is a terrible person, not to be trusted as a ruler.

    I have learned from raising kids that punishment causes distrust, resentment and pain. Love is the law my friend, not fear.
     
  17. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the civil and well thought out post.
     
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  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    There isn't anything "atheist" about nature.

    I don't believe that a god would suggest we should not explore how this universe works.
     
  19. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I never said otherwise. I said that everyone came from their Parents, who came from theirs and so on, all throughout human history. That's how the universe works. Humans have always been humans, and animals have always been animals. This is a seven thousand year contiguous trek. The theory of mans evolution in the time before time has no foundation in reality. It is based on studying bones and fossils, hopscotched across tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years, with nothing contiguous about it aside from imagination and paper formulas.
     
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  20. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Science means nothing to you. You simply ignore it or call it false until you need it for everyday living. We are finding buildings/living areas far older than your 7000 years. Were they part of the detritus that formed the world. Aborigines have been in Australia for 50-60000 years - give or take a few weeks. Caves have drawings 30000 years old. The movement of the earth has a 25,000 year cycle called precession. Where, in your 7000 years, is the Sahara Desert a fertile land as it was 12,000 years ago.
    You previously mentioned talking in concepts. Religion is a concept born in the mind of man.
     
  21. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you understand me. You can't say your scientific estimations of the age of things are bona fide outside its own parameters. Neither can you draw lines between this or that thing found in the earth, connecting it to mankind and call it the tie that binds in your effort to make a whole cloth. You may as well, upon finding scriptures, insert yourself into the conversation, and elect yourself to Gods service. I am not so bold as to do such a thing. I would wonder my place and note where I am. I am just a man, born and living what is given me to live. And when I'm told that I evolved from animals, I think of my Parents faces, my friends and family members, their spirits and the light within me. And I throw the notion of evolution away like poison. You may reason from this that I am unteachable. But I am naturally beholden to my creation and not given to presumption. Instinct tells me that evolution is a falsehood. I will not leave my path. You say I am deluded. But I am not the one who has vacated where his Forefathers have walked, to settle on speculation of what might be, as if that which is isn't enough. God has been merciful to me. He has given me life and earth. He has stayed his hand and covered me in charity. He has sent his spirit to awaken me to a remembrance of him. Therefore I do not presume to dispossess him of his own agency. God is God, and I am his creation. I and all of my progenitors have always been men of Gods making and charity. You can barely tell me with certainty what you yourself did yesterday. Much less what someone you never met did, fifty thousand years ago. You say that I am an evolved monkey. Then hear me if I am. You have the scriptures. Make of them what you will. Burrow a den therein, or flatten yourself in the crags of scripture, or dismiss the matter off hand in favor of your own measure of all things. Make your bed where you will.
     
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  22. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Geology says there was no global flood. Your "instincts" mean nothing.
     
  23. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    There was no global flood but on a side note there is a lot of evidence that at the end of the last ice age, as the glaciers receded in North America, the Great Lakes were a giant inland sea held back from the ocean by the same glaciers that were retreating. The ice wall broke and a huge flood of fresh water travelled up the St Lawrence river into the ocean. This caused sea level rise that broke through the barrier that separated what is now the Mediterranean from the Atlantic ocean. Until that moment the Mediterranean was a low level lake. When the water broke that barrier, the entire basin filled with water. In addition, there is some evidence that this water also broke the coast line of Northern Egypt/Libya, traveled back west along North Africa and washed back over the west coast and into the Atlantic again although I am not sure that the two events line up.

    This event happened way further back in the history of our planet than the time when the flood from Sumerian history (which the Noah myth is based on) is supposed to have occurred but perhaps this event explains why flood myths are so popular in ancient mythologies. Just a guess of course.
     
  24. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think Injeun just believes what he feels comfortable with and throws the rest of reality away. What has evolution got to do with loving your parents I wonder. I don't even know my ancestors of 50,000 years ago. Why should I love them? But I was close to my parents and family and shared with them. Religion makes people feel safe from eternal 'death'. Atheists accept the fact. Does anyone actually want to 'live' for eternity. We don't even know what the term means. We have our own system of 'time' and really have no idea of what a spiritual 'eternal life' would really mean.
     
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  25. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One theory is that 12000 years ago a very large meteor struck around North Canada and the tremendous heat and disturbance caused the Glacier lakes to break out and flood much of North America causing what is known as the 'Scablands'. This was around the Younger Dryas period and glaciers were melting, the sea water was rising which affected a lot of the world.
     
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