Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,722
    Likes Received:
    484
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    I hear ya Brother Todd! Nice to hear such sage words coming from you...a regular habit of yours!

    ..you too Brother...keep up the good fight! (yes indeed a phrase from the Bible)
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,889
    Likes Received:
    13,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Now you are contradicting yourself - previously stating "there are not 3 Gods depicted in the Bible" now you say indeed the Bible does depict other Gods but dismiss them as False Gods .. which is laughable .. as all of the Ancient Israelites that we know of .. from the Bible - History - Archaeology .. and so on .. did not view them as "false gods" Your confusing text written centuries after the fact .. with beliefs at the time .. So Isaiah for example calling them false Gods .. is not saying anything about what the ancient Israelites believed.


    you then show further lack of understanding claiming we do not know that Terah/Abraham was a believer in Sumerian God(s) ..

    "nor does the Holy Bible mention Abraham's father and Abraham himself as being believers in Sumerian gods"

    Tell us then Mitt .. Surely you know that Abraham worships a God.. Did you forget about the "Melchizedek" Episode where Abe and Mel worship the Most High .. ? What was the name of this "Most High" God that Abe and a Canaanite Priest King are worshiping ?
     
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,889
    Likes Received:
    13,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What a steaming pile of denial .. your problem is not folks who do not believe in God. Your problem is those who do believe in God .. but don't have God figured out the way you do. .. and so you demonize these folks "The Other" .. thinking you are somehow intellectually superior because your story of God is "different" ..

    This is not the "good fight" mate .. not the path to understanding the Creator .. it is a path to xenophobia .. path to the dark side it is.

    Happy about that diatribe were ya .. hand in hand .. to the promised land .. the bliss of denial .. covering up eyes ears mouth .. any orifice that might let the light in .. until all is darkness.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
  4. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,722
    Likes Received:
    484
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    No I haven't contradicted myself. I stand firm in what I have said.. there will be no retractions coming from me. Speaking about retractions I'm still waiting for your retraction regarding the spewed out falsehood statement made by you below:

    Anyhoot in your flawed perspective because you can't helped it being that you're interpretation impaired, naturally you're going to falsely accuse me now of being contradictory.

    Here once again read very carefully everything below I'm about to say and please note I back up what I say with Scripture...read slowly and attentively so you don't miss a word/beat...put on your reading comprehension skilled adult hat to make sure you don't miss a word/beat.

    Christianity is not a polytheistic religion, meaning we Christians worship only one God because there is only one true God in existence. How do we know this you might ask, well Our Creator Almighty God has told us this in His greatest selling book of all time...the Holy Bible.

    There are numerous passages/verses throughout the Holy Bible that reminds us of God's Sovereignty, that He alone is God. Below are a few examples.

    We Read in Scripture:

    5 God, the Lord, created the heavens and stretched them out. He created the earth and everything in it. He gives breath to everyone, life to everyone who walks the earth. And it is he who says, 6 “I, the Lord, have called you to demonstrate my righteousness. I will take you by the hand and guard you, and I will give you to my people, Israel, as a symbol of my covenant with them. And you will be a light to guide the nations. Isaiah 42:5-6 NLT

    2 Before the mountains were born, before you gave birth to the earth and the world, from beginning to end, you are God. Psalm 90:2 NLT

    20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God. Romans 1:20 NLT

    4 “Listen, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord alone.[a] Deuteronomy 6:4 NLT

    5 The gods of other nations are mere idols, but the Lord made the heavens! Psalm 96:5 NLT

    19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God.[a] Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. James 2:19 NLT

    The Holy Bible I've said numerous of times again and again is not a book for the interpretation impaired. That's where people like you come in. You read the Holy Bible but the problem for you and others of your kind is that you continually misinterpret what you read. That's why I'm here to help you get on the right track and off of the wrong track.

    The Holy Bible which is the inspired Word of God has told us about false gods. It's all there written in the Scriptures, below are a few examples.

    We Read in Scripture:

    18 And they have thrown the gods of these nations into the fire and burned them. But of course the Assyrians could destroy them! They were not gods at all—only idols of wood and stone shaped by human hands. 2 Kings 19:18 NLT

    9 How foolish are those who manufacture idols. These prized objects are really worthless. The people who worship idols don’t know this, so they are all put to shame. 10 Who but a fool would make his own god—an idol that cannot help him one bit? Isaiah 44:9-10 NLT

    Well yeah they did not view them as "false gods" because as the Prophet Isaiah said in the verse above they were "foolish"..."who but a fool would make his own god."

    Doesn't matter when the text were written because what is written in all of Scripture comes from God Himself, so it's the truth and nothing but the truth. How could God tell us a lie, He's not a man, He's not human so He doesn't change His mind.

    We Read in Scripture:

    19 God is not a man, so he does not lie. He is not human, so he does not change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through? Numbers 23:19 NLT

    God is the author of the Holy Bible. Through a process of inspiration, He inspired all the writers of the Holy Bible to write down what He wanted them to write.

    We Read in Scripture:

    20 Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding, 21 or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God. 2 Peter 1:20-21 NLT

    16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. 17 God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 NLT

    Sorry giff but again, there is no where written in Scripture that God tells us that Abraham and his father were believers in Sumerian gods. You are only assuming that, you have nothing to back up your statement.

    Of course I know Abraham worshipped God, the one true God. There is no where written in Scripture where God tells us Abraham worshipped false gods...gods that don't even exist. We are told he worshipped God.

    James refers to Abraham as “God’s friend” a title used of no one else in Scripture.

    We Read in Scripture:

    23 And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”[a] He was even called the friend of God. James 2:23 NLT

    Although we know much about Abraham’s life, we know little about his birth and early life. When we first meet Abraham in reading Scripture, he is already 75 years old.

    We Read in Scripture:

    4 So Abram departed as the Lord had instructed, and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he left Haran. Genesis 12:4 NLT

    Note: Abraham was known as Abram before the Lord changed his name to Abraham.

    So we are not told what Abraham believed in during his early life prior to him having a relationship with God. For all we know he might have been an atheist. So point being we can't assume anything, whether or not he was an atheist or believed in Sumerian false gods prior to him having a relationship with God.

    What we learn from reading Scripture is that aside from Moses, no Old Testament character is mentioned more in the New Testament than Abraham. As I've already pointed out above James refers to Abraham as “God’s friend” a title used of no one else in Scripture.

    Believers in all generations are called the “children of Abraham”. Abraham’s importance and impact in redemptive history are clearly seen in Scripture.

    We Read in Scripture:

    7 The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God. Galatians 3:7 NLT

    Ok giff thanks for your response, it was a pleasure for me to respond to it. Let us know if you have interpreted everything correctly here or if you are still interpretation impaired.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
    ToddWB likes this.
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,889
    Likes Received:
    13,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You claimed other Gods were not depicted in the Bible .. then stated there were other God's depicted .. Contradiction central mate ... and name calling will not change this fact.

    Why are you saying Christianity is not polytheistic .. when it was not claimed otherwise ? The Israelites believed in and worshiped many Gods. Do you not know the difference between Christianity and the Ancient Israelites ?

    and you run from Scripture that disagree's with your extremist perspective .. in fact it is what you are doing now .. pretending things were said that were not in order to avoid "tough questions" such as Why does YHWH induce our good friend Jephthah to sacrifice is only daughter ?

    Who said God lied ? again you are making up nonsense in order to deflect and avoid scripture that conflicts with your perspective.
    Your claim that all scripture comes from God himself is demonstrably false nonsense ... shown you numerous times .. followed by you running away .. changing the topic .. unable to deal with reality.

    Which Bible is the one that God Wrote .. and if he wrote them all .. why are there such big differences ?

    Then you go pretending to know what God thinks . putting words in God's mouth .. aka "Speaking for God" - the abomination of desolation . the unforgivable sin .. down the dark path of deception.

     
  6. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,722
    Likes Received:
    484
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Lol...yes you're still interpretation impaired.
     
  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,889
    Likes Received:
    13,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "You Claimed"
    Whats wrong Mitt ? All you can do is cherry pick two words out of a long post .. and namecall from peanut gallery ?

    All this because Scripture conflicts with your fundamentalist beliefs .. so you run from that scripture .. cherry picking only the stuff that agree's with your crooked fundamentalist perspective .. half the time misinterpreting even that.

    Simple question mate .. Which Bible is the one where every word is from God .. and why does another Bible say something different .. is that Bible not written by God ?

    Come on now Mitt -- you claimed to be able to answer tough questions .. your failing us.
     
  8. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    56,871
    Likes Received:
    22,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The original Bible is God's word. What you are referring to are versions that were translated by man.
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,889
    Likes Received:
    13,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sure .. but since all we have are the versions translated by man - and we have no copies of the "Original" .. not really God's word anymore ..is it .. !?
     
    Jolly Penguin likes this.
  10. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    56,871
    Likes Received:
    22,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are copies of it.
     
  11. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,722
    Likes Received:
    484
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    It is true that there are many stories in the Holy Bible that have remarkable similarities with stories from other religions, legends, and myths.

    Some of the stories with their similarities do not point to one account copying from the other, but to the fact that both stories point back to the same historical event. While other similarities do point to one account copying from the other, but in these cases the Bible was the source, not the pagan myths (despite pseudo-academic claims to the contrary).

    The Moses/Sargon stories are one example of copying from the other, the Sargon story apparently copied from the Moses story. Let me explain as thoroughly as I can be to prove the point.

    First let's consider Sargon’s birth. Legend has it that Sargon was placed in a reed basket and sent down the river by his mother. He was rescued by Aqqi, who then adopted him as his own son. This story sounds a lot like the story of Moses in the Book of Exodus Chapter 2 of the Holy Bible. And Sargon lived about 800 years before Moses was born. So the Moses baby-sent-down-the-river-only-to-be-rescued-and-adopted story must have been borrowed from Sargon, right?

    That sounds reasonable, but what is known of Sargon comes almost entirely from legends written many hundreds of years after his death. There are very few contemporary records of Sargon’s life. The legend of Sargon’s childhood, how he was placed in a basket and sent down a river, comes from two 7th century B.C. cuneiform tablets (from the library of the Assyrian king Ashurbanipal, who reigned from 668 to 627 B.C.), written hundreds of years after the Book of Exodus. If someone wants to argue that one account was borrowed from another, it would have to be the other way around: the Sargon legend appears to have borrowed from the Exodus account of Moses.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
  12. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,889
    Likes Received:
    13,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Mitt - you have something correct - and an astute observation - as neither the Sumerian Tale nor the Genesis Tale .. were copied one from the other or vice versa so the "which came first" question is silly .. the answer being neither . Both are retellings of the same story .. that everyone at the time knew .. as it was the story of every near east religion and beyond. Its just what folks believed.

    So at the time of "Abraham" the "We" in the story .. was the elite in the Divine Pantheon .. who everyone agreed were the creator Gods ..
    One of these Gods however was the Supreme God ... Chief diety on Earth .. head of the Divine Council .. and that God's name was Enlil - "Ellil - El" being other variations.

    Now Abe's father Terah - who was an Idol Maker in Ur -- worshiped these Gods .as we are told in Joshua 24
    Abe decided to leave Ur .. and set off towards Ugarit . very close to Jerusalem. Ugarit is the namesake of El .. Patron God of that city..
    Abe decides to worship only one of the Gods .. the most high .. as we are told .. and that God is El .. as we are told in Abe's encounter with the Priest King of Jerusalem . where Abe gives Tithes to this Canaanite King .. and they both worship El .. give sacrifices and so on .in thanks for victory in war..

    Your claim that the Moses story proceeds the Sargon story makes no sense. Sargon united the city states into the worlds first Empire in 2300 BC .. was diefied after Death .. Revered by everyone in the near east .. down through the ages .. retellings of this story in many cultures. Moses was not around for another 1000 years .. but hey .. who is to say both are not true in some way .. as success for both is atributed to a Patron God .. both rise to become Messianic Leader ...

    My take on the lost years .. between Abe and Moses ~ 300-400 years - more and more I am leaning towards the Hyksos hypothesis .. as opposed to the Akhenaten/Ramses dating. This puts the Hebrews in Egypt in and subsequent Exodus back to around 1500-1400 rather than a few centuries later. This was a time where foreign invaders known as the Hyksos were on the Egyptian throne .. some of which have Hebrew names in their lineage ..

    Abe was a warrior king .. ruled the tribes inhabiting the area around egypt .. the peoples "Midianites - descended from lot - or was that the Moabites .. you had the elamites - all closely related / "Hebrew Tribes" and also the Canaanites albiet somewhat more distant at this time .. .. but in essence all these people descended from the Canaanites in one form or another. Abe was a Warrior King .. commanded quite a force .. centuries later this had grown bigger .. and they hit Egypt when it was weak..

    Things turned sour .. Egypt took back the thrown .. and life got rough for the Hebrews who settled back from whence they came.. but the fight for turf was tough and things had chanced from back in Abes day 400 years later.. but battle they do .. eventually taking territory that was the Southern and Northern Kingdom. Fits in very well with the History and Archeaology
     
  13. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,889
    Likes Received:
    13,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Um .. yes doom .. the point of saying something is a copy .. is because there are copies .. none of which however, is the original = we do not have "God's word"
     
  14. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,244
    Likes Received:
    5,453
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Wrong.. Dead Sea Scrolls kinda proved that it has been faithfully copied for centuries.. I do like to study it in the languages in which was written. The Book is supernatural.
     
    submarinepainter and Mitt Ryan like this.
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,889
    Likes Received:
    13,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What do you mean "Wrong" ? The Dead Sea Scrolls are not the original.. .. nor faithfully copied for centuries from "the Original"

    What was interesting about the dead sea scrolls .. is that it confirmed .. along with the LXX - that the copyists did a horrible job from then - ~200 BC to now. And that is just talking the OT ... the NT is a raging disaster as well.

    So .. which is "God's word" ? 4Deut Q - LXX (both of which are ~200BC) or Masoretic Text (MT) from which all modern Translations were copied ... sans only recently they have been going back to the older and making some corrections - "Some" being the operative word .. the vast majority .. still unchecked .. or "Modern Translation" .. and if so which one.

    Which is "God's Word"
     
  16. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    21,596
    Likes Received:
    1,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I was raised Catholic, and I have married a Protestant can I still practice?
     
  17. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,722
    Likes Received:
    484
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes of course you can but it won't be easy obviously being under your current circumstances. But as a couple both of you should strive for spiritual unity. Couples of differing doctrinal positions often find it extremely difficult to compromise and reconcile but with God as we all know as believers, all things are possible with Him.

    If one or both spouses consider the other spouse's beliefs to be unbiblical then in such a situation this couple may be forced to attend different churches. If you find yourselves in this situation then both of you should commit to praying that truth be revealed and spiritual unity be achieved. Your doctrinal conflicts must be resolved before true unity can be achieved.

    We Read in Scripture:

    Effective Prayer

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,


    7 "Keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Matthew 7:7-8 NLT

    A couple attending different churches must be willing to hold everything they are taught up to the light of Scripture and be ready to discard anything that is contradicted by the Bible.

    So both of you must “test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good”.

    We Read in Scripture:

    21 but test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 NLT

    Ok submarinepainter it was a pleasure for me to respond to your question, may you and your wife achieve spiritual unity.
     
    ToddWB and submarinepainter like this.
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,889
    Likes Received:
    13,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh this is absurd illogical diatribe- posing as spiritual guidance -- authoritarian fundimentalist extremism .. black vs white paradigms - "as if" the mind of God is known on the issue . and thus speaking for God. the abomination of desolation down the dark path have u been led .. taught you this blasphamy someone has.

    "Sola Fide" "Saved by Faith alone" - Protestant Belief ---
    Catholic belief - Sola Fide an anathema.

    Only one can be biblical .. Your solution "Praying will reveal the Truth" --- Will it Mitt -- Since the dawn of Protestantism .. praying has not revealed the Truth .. but you claim .. just pray and bingo .. Gods Truth is known. what a steaming pile of deciet and denial bro..

    Then you claim "True Unity" can not be arrived .. until this unresolvable conflict can be resolved.. Where can I find the Russian Roulette table... Poooffff --- who the hell made you arbiter of true unity - God's chosen arbiter of the truth . .. usuper of the Logos ..

    The unforgivable sin Mitt - tell me about this sin .. your next "Tough Question"
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2022
  19. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,244
    Likes Received:
    5,453
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Very good answer, Brother Mitt. My wife was raised Catholic, I protestant and we'v e have attended both masses and sermons, she prefers the Bible study vs. the rite.
     
    Mitt Ryan likes this.
  20. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,244
    Likes Received:
    5,453
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I haVE ask GD, do you believe in a "higher being"? What are your beliefs?
     
  21. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,722
    Likes Received:
    484
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Why thanks a whole lot Brother Todd! Well I guess I can assume that both of you have achieved this spiritual unity. I too, like your wife prefer Bible study vs. the rite.

    Let me expound on the topic regarding rites for a bit.

    In reading Scripture we find that in the Old Testament, various rites were commanded as part of the Mosaic Law. For example in Leviticus 16 which is regarding "The Day of Atonement" it required a complicated series of rites to be performed.

    We Read in Scripture:

    Old Rules about Worship

    9 That first covenant between God and Israel had regulations for worship and a place of worship here on earth. Hebrews 9:1 NLT

    But those rites were only external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

    We Read in Scripture:

    10 For that old system deals only with food and drink and various cleansing ceremonies—physical regulations that were in effect only until a better system could be established. Hebrews 9:10 NLT

    Scripture tells us and makes it perfectly clear that Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ is the mediator of a new covenant and that He has fulfilled the Law with all its rites and regulations.

    We Read in Scripture:

    15 That is why he is the one who mediates a new covenant between God and people, so that all who are called can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant. Hebrews 9:15 NLT

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

    Teaching about the Law


    17 “Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. Matthew 5:17 NLT

    The blood of bulls and goats could never take away our sin but we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ once for all.

    We Read in Scripture:

    4 For it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Hebrews 10:4 NLT

    10 For God’s will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time. Hebrews 10:10 NLT

    So for us believers the important thing to remember is that rites/rituals cannot replace true worship of Our Creator Almighty God. Scripture tells us a time is coming, it's here now, when true worshippers will worship the Father is spirit and in truth. Our Father is looking for those who will worship Him that way, for God is Spirit so those who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth.

    We Read in Scripture:

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,


    23 But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. 24 For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.” John 4:23-24 NLT

    A rite performed in a church may be full of meaning, or it may be nothing but a cold, empty routine. It may be beneficial in drawing a humble worshiper nearer to God, or it may be keeping a distant heart at its distance. The difference is a matter of the heart. Certain rites may be helpful, but we can certainly worship the Lord without rites and we should never allow rites to replace a personal relationship with Our Creator Almighty God!

    Ok Brother Todd thanks again for your compliment and your post, it was a pleasure for me to respond to it. God bless you and your wife, the couple who appears to have achieved spiritual unity!
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
    ToddWB likes this.
  22. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,722
    Likes Received:
    484
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Well it appears you missed my post regarding "the unpardonable sin" which of course is the same as saying the "unforgivable sin". On Feb 15, 2021 I posted a response to member Logician0311 regarding in part of this "the unpardonable sin". You will find that post on Part 38, pg. 32 #782. But anyway let me just repost part of that post below and I want to inform you that I edited just one word out and replaced it with another word to avoid confusion because I know how you are so prone to misinterpreting what you read and so I want to make it as clear as I possibly can for you:

    People are where they are in eternity based on the choice they made regarding belief/unbelief in God. God only pardons people for pardonable sins but not for the unpardonable sin, which is the sin for not believing in Him.

    So the only unpardonable sin is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in their rejection of Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment.

    We Read in Scripture:

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,


    8 "And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment." John 16:8 NLT

    If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. Without faith it is impossible to please God.

    We Read in Scripture:

    6 And it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that God exists and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him. Hebrews 11:6 NLT

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ is the object of faith. Without faith in Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ there is no forgiveness for someone who dies.

    We Read in Scripture:

    31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, along with everyone in your household.” Acts 16:31 NLT

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,

    16 "For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 NLT

    6 Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6 NLT

    To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.

    Ok thanks giff for your question it was a pleasure for me to repost "the unpardonable sin" again since you missed it the first time I posted it. Now please keep this in your note file so you don't ask me the same question again but more importantly so it's engrained in your mind.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,889
    Likes Received:
    13,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Abomination of Desolation" / Unpardonable sin is the "Tough Question"

    and you give something you made up on the spot "Not believing " you say --- is the unforgivable sin.

    Is that what the lost souls over at that fundamentalist snake charmer site are peddling these days Mitt ? Just make stuff up toss out a bunch of scripture that doesn't address or mention the unforgivable sin .. and call it a day of deflection and deception.

    Has nothing to do with lack of belief Mitt - but it has something to do with making a false representation of God... .. representing God falsely .. as do the decievers on that fundamentalist snake charmer site you run to for answers ... then run back here to cut and past the answer of the wolves in sheeps clothing ..and decievers of men.. and women :)

    The guilt is on your head Mitt ... usurping the position of the logos .. and unabashadly so. Jesus has words for such belief .. in his summary of the Sermon On the Mount .. the passage you run from - into the loving arms of the wolves ..desperate to hide from "The Truth .. The Way .. the Light"

    Not all those who call lord lord .. "the believers" .. the showboats -- make it through the pearly gates .. Matt 7 Only those who do the will of the Father .. which is the doing .. not the hearing .. not the "believing" -- Mitt .. Thats what our lord savior has to say on the issue.

    For as we read in Scripture -Matt 7: 24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

    Are the words of the logos difficult for you to bear Mitt -- You will know them (the wolves) by their deeds .. Not by their Beliefs Mitt.. The words of the Prophet escape you ?


    Matt 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

    Yes Mitt .. not by their beliefs .. but by their Fruit .. their deeds .. Stated here by the Logos .. restated by Brother James .. James 2.. saying it is the foolish that believe that "faith alone" will get them into heaven.

    But Hey .. no worries .. ride the Sola Fide Train all the way home Mitt .. won't help you with the "Unforgivable Sin" though .. all the faith in the world don't get you out of that one .. hence why it is called "unforgivable"

    Playing with fire .. False representation of the Most High .. hope you don't bet burned Brother .. :angel::angel:
     
  24. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2012
    Messages:
    12,923
    Likes Received:
    6,033
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    IMO, the unpardonable sin is to rebel against a fullness of light and truth. Seeing that most of mankind is in the dark in regards to God...such a level of sin would be extremely rare. A good example of such a sin would be Lucifers open rebellion against God, Jesus,, and all the hosts of heaven, while in heaven, and with a full knowledge of all things. Among men, such a sin would have to involve having developed a close and personal relationship with God, a fullness of knowledge, revelation and light, having conversed with Angels, been endowed with Gods authority and keys, having performed miracles, and been endowed with the Holy Ghost as a constant companion. And then to rebel against all this and against the Holy Ghost. It is unpardonable because there is no more to gain and thus there is no excuse. Lastly, such a person probably wouldn't want to be forgiven as they are at war with mercy. I suppose this is near to the unquenchable fire. But why anyone would choose such a thing is beyond me. I don't believe that not believing in Jesus Christ is the unpardonable sin. I think that not believing in him is because of many things, but mostly ignorance. And such a person may go right out and practice greater compassion and goodness than many who do believe in Jesus Christ. God judges our hearts and spirits and how we live our lives, moreso than the professions of our lips. I could be wrong, but this is what seems right to me in keeping with the nature and character of the God with whom I am acquainted, and do love with all my heart as much as I am able. Judgment belongs to God, and I trust in his fairness. He did not give his life in hatred or for our condemnation, but for our salvation, because he loves us. And in following he extends mercy to us all of our days for the same reason. It is the very cause of our being alive. He is not out to get us for a slight. He understands everything and knows how each of us got to be who we are. He knows everything.
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  25. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,722
    Likes Received:
    484
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Well let's be honest here above, we don't really know for sure that the age of the earth is 4.54 ± 0.05 billion years old. Whatever method one uses to determine the age of the earth, it must rely on certain assumptions which may or may not be accurate. There are potential drawbacks for example radiometric dating is only useful or accurate back to a certain point, far less than the scale involved in dating the earth. Geologic time scales, fossil records, and so forth are highly dependent on assumptions and subject to modeling errors. The same is true of observations of the greater universe, we can only see a tiny fraction of all that exists, and much of what we know is theoretical. Relying on science to answer scientific questions is fine, but science cannot be treated as infallible.

    And so in the end the chronological age of the earth cannot be proven...sorry but that's just the way it is because it's the truth and nothing but the truth. Only Our Creator Almighty God knows the true age of the earth and the universe as a whole, after all He created the heavens and the earth.

    We Read in Scripture:

    The Account of Creation


    1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.[a] 2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. Genesis 1:1-2 NLT
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
    ToddWB likes this.

Share This Page