Plan to tax drivers per mile hidden in $1.2 trillion bill

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by kazenatsu, Aug 11, 2021.

  1. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Can't do it yearly because many would not have the money for one large payment.

    Tax must be collected in real time.

    I understand why they are thinking a tax per mile but I see it as a paperwork nightmare...
     
  2. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    What falls under infrastructure other than roads and bridges? I have more than a half a brain and I thought it was a limited definition. I can see including the electrical grid, not charging stations for a limited number of cars. If it were profitable the private sector would already be involved.
     
  3. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Read the bill...
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...heet-historic-bipartisan-infrastructure-deal/
     
  4. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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  5. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    I think voters are willing to fund infrastructure but run into a political bait and switch once money is in the bag. Roads in my area are in rough shape because we have been involved in a boom and truck traffic has been unbelievable. We're fixing them now. Texas does roads right.
     
  6. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Examples of infrastructure include transportation systems, communication networks, sewage, water, and electric systems. These systems tend to be capital intensive and high-cost investments, and are vital to a country's economic development and prosperity.

    It is the basic organisational and physical structure that is required to run a business smoothly. In an organization or for a country, a basic infrastructure includes communication and transportation, sewage, water, education system, health system, clean drinking water, and monetary system.

    Economic infrastructure is the basic facilities which directly benefit the process of production and distribution in an economy. Roads, railways, telecommunication systems, waterways, airways, financial institutions, electricity, water supply etc are the examples of economic infrastructure.
     
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  7. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Politicians have purposely kept federal tax rates too low over the decades and now much of the nation is falling apart...it's catch up time!!
     
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  8. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Wrong priorities. We are 23 trillion in debt so there was no shortage of money
     
  9. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    We have no dispute on those issues. Where the fun starts is when the spending begins and unscrupulous people start identifying and defining what falls under each sub title.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2021
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  10. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Airports, sewage, dams, railways, tunnels, air traffic control, weather stations, internet, etc, etc.
     
  11. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Only about 5% of that "Infrastructure Bill" goes to the first seven of those on the list.

    If this infrastructure bill was only going to those things, Republicans would not have been against it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2021
  12. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Once again you FAILED to provide any substantiation for your ALLEGATION.
     
  13. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Works for me but it's the etc, etc. we will need to watch.
     
  14. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a problem with it.

    And, it's been feasible since the early 1980s.

    The federal and State governments have an excise tax on gasoline. Up through the 1980s, for technological and clerical reasons, the gasoline tax was the fairest, cheapest, most cost-effective way of collecting the tax.

    With the widespread use of computers in the 1980s, it would have been a simple matter for a BMV/DMV clerk to read your odometer and log the mileage to calculate your tax on miles, rather than gasoline.

    Both the States and federal government are seeing dwindling tax revenues on gasoline due to ever-increasing fuel efficiency mandated by Congress or the EPA, and the introduction of alternative fuels and engines, like electric and hybrids.

    It's a no-brainer that at some point in the future, the States and federal government will be collecting a pittance in gasoline tax revenues.

    A mileage-based tax is a user-fee that is fairer and more appropriate.

    Nothing fundamental changes, since the same substitutes are available:

    1) you can walk;
    2) you can bike;
    3) you can avail yourself of mass transit;
    4) you can combine trips; and/or
    5) you can car-pool.

    If I have an issue, it's that the Department of Transportation needs to go and the federal government needs to get out of the interstate highway business.

    States are perfectly capable of assessing the needs of their State, and if the federal government abolished the excise tax, then States simply increase their tax to match the federal excise tax so no harm, no foul.

    The policies of the Departments of Transportation and Housing & Urban Development have FUBAR'd the US.

    Those two Departments are responsible for the astronomical housing costs in many of the 120,000+ housing markets in the US.

    It's high time they stop screwing things up not to mention the horrendous waste of tax-payer money from both Departments.
     
  15. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    I am mixed in my feeling regarding this story. My initial thought is this is another complicated tax system that will have huge overhead and add to the big government problem. BUT the bottom line is we need to pay for roads and bridges so the question is how do we get the revenue when gas taxes will diminish with time as people switch to electric vehicles. Bernie Sanders and AOC would probably just want to raise the taxes for the rich and corporations. At least this proposed method targets those that do the driving and use the roads. This is more in line with my thinking in that people that use the resource or service directly should pay more than those that benefit from it indirectly.

    Before you pooh pooh the idea if you accept the fact that gas revenues will decline with time what is an alternative way to raise revenues to maintain and build new roads. Should we just put large tax when you purchase an electric vehicle? Should we raise taxes for everyone or maybe just the rich to cover the loss revenue? Should we simply toll more roads and bridges?
     
  16. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Our tax revenue is not insignificant so maybe it's just a matter of priorities?
     
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe you didn't read through all the posts in this thread.

    There are other reasonable ideas to address this.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2021
  18. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't have to. This thread is not about the "Infrastructure Bill".
     
  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How about a combination of various other taxes? An electric power tax, a tax on commercial charging stations, a tire tax, a tax on electric car batteries, a biannual electric car tax, and some general tax funds to pay for roads.

    Breaking it up into multiple revenue streams would help to avoid any perverse incentives and help reduce the level of unfairness of any individual tax.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2021
  20. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    WTF?

    YOU wrote the OP and the Title! :eek:

    Then you wrote this post;

    So NOW you are DENYING that you mentioned the infrastructure bill multiple TIMES in the OP and you INCLUDED it in the TITLE and you FAILED to substantiate what YOU alleged about the infrastructure bill in the post I responded to?

    How is anyone supposed to take the OP seriously when the OP flatly DENIES their own WORDS?

    SAD!

    :roflol:
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2021
  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay, sorry, a lapse on my part. But the point is this wasn't focusing on the rest of the infrastructure bill, this was focusing on the tax per mile part of it.
     
  22. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    FACT is...federal gasoline taxes have been kept too low, on purpose, because more access to gasoline drives the economy. Everyone can argue if it's been a good decision...
     
  23. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    YOU and other voters put these people in office to make those decisions for you...if you don't like their decisions remove them from office...
     
  24. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    We didn't ALL elect all of them. That's horse racing and politics and discussion boards like this one may have some influence on those of us who did vote for them the next time they are on a ballot. Meantime, we vent.
    That's a matter of opinion and we differ widely on it.
     
  25. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Now you don't believe in our elections? Sour grapes because your person did not win? Congress IS YOUR REPRESENTATIVE, voted into office, and like it or not make these decisions for you and everyone else.

    https://taxfoundation.org/oecd-gas-tax/
    The US could have increased their gasoline tax rates to be more in line with other nations but chose to keep them too low in order to stimulate the US economy. Try to imagine what happens if the US tax increases from $.18/gallon to $2.00/gallon...
     

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