Hello, recently in school I got in trouble for not doing the pledge of allegiance in class. I do not believe in god myself, and I felt that when it said "under god" it was sort of saying that god existed, and I don't believe that, so I felt my religious freedom was sort of being tampered, I did not end up doing the pledge, but not before almost getting suspended. I feel in a way it was touching 2 of my civil rights: Freedom of Religion, and Freedom of Speech, because I think Freedom of Speech should also mean that I don't have to say certain things if I don't want to. I just want your guy's opinions on this. Thank you.
I don't like the pledge because it is statist worship designed to curb states' rights (...indivisible...). Should I have to say it?
check out this pledge..... I hope you weren't eating dinner when you read that. It almost made me throw up.
Good for your teacher. God aside, do you feel loyalty for your country, or wished you lived someplace else?
the pledge of allegiance was written by francis bellamy, a christian socialist. it is designed to indoctrinate children, and damage state's rights. good for OP for not saying it.
It's your right NOT to have to say the Pledge of Allegiance. Your teacher should be disciplined. We all know what happens when the unquestioned loyalty is extended to the state...
I honestly can respond to that. I don't owe my country anything. Maybe some of its people, but the country itself can shove it. I'm an anarchist, sorta. I don't dig the government. Unfortunately, there's no where much better to go. It might be the best country to live in, but booooy is it bad. Anyways, moving on from that lil' tantrum. Resist it again. This time, hold your ground and you hold it (*)(*)(*)(*)ed through the long run. All you gotta do is mention "Supreme Court" and the teacher as well as the principle will likely back the hell down. If I'm wrong, you can still fight it. They can't force you to do something like that, since it is in fact unconstitutional.
I'd say keep not saying it if you don't want to. I agree the under god part needs to go and as mentioned the pledge is too nationalist. In a free nation there is no reason for our children to pledge their allegiance to anything. If however you feel you need to, just replace 'god' with 'government'. That's what my teacher buddy does so that kids won't ask him why he doesn't say 'god' since that's a dangerous conversation for a teacher. On a side note I say vets shouldn't have to say the pledge, stand for the flag/anthem, etc. We already served, so if I wanna stay seated and drink a beer while some twit sings the anthem I should be able to without people getting upset. To me the constant bad singing and seeming oneupmanship involved in singing the anthem at sports events is terrible enough that I think me sitting on my ass drinking a beer is more patriotic than standing up to our anthem getting murdered anyway. Send out a bunch of war fighters who can't sing to do the anthem, then I'll stand. Best version I've ever heard was when we sang it in basic training. Much better than some dumb heroin (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) that can't sing trying to out high note and out stretch everyone else. Anyway this all came up from the conversation with my teacher buddy about how he had to say the pledge. My other buddy said "I'd tell them '(*)(*)(*)(*) you I'm a vet,' I mean what are they going to say at that point, 'you're un-American?'" /rant. So, again to re-enforce it: if you don't believe in the pledge don't say it. If they say otherwise tell them to (*)(*)(*)(*) off in a way that won't get you suspended. If they tell you it's unpatriotic, tell them my message is for them to (*)(*)(*)(*) off. Don't sugar coat that remark, you're not saying it, I am
If you sit quietly and do nothing, they cannot punish you. I.e., don't be disruptive. Just sit quietly and do not move. If the teacher asks you to get up and say the pledge, just say "no thank you" as polite as you can. No public school can force you to say the pledge, period.
Good question...I would love to hear the answer. If you don't believe in God, why can't people just skip that part? Never understood it.
I agree. That's what's always struck me as a bit odd about the habit of kids in the US being expected to say it. I'm not criticising in any way - it's just an observation. We all have our cultural differences, traditions and so on, and that's fine - it just seems to me a slightly strange tradition for a country so openly passionate about freedom to have developed. I don't know quite why the habit of doing that has developed to the point of children being expected to give a pledge of allegience in school. I don't really know how widespread such things are in other places either though - is the UK unusual in not having any sort of pledge of loyalty that kids are generally expected to take in school, or is the US case the more unusual?
Significant portions of our population do not believe that we are "under God", being the Christian God, and they are thus excluded from any Pledge containing those words. What are you seeking from the Pledge? If you seek to have as many people as possible "on board" with love of this country, it would be better to not make them choose between the Pledge and their religious (or nonreligious) beliefs. Right? I have a Hindu friend who served honorably in the military and is active in his community, he is also a local physician. He and his children do not say the Pledge for the sole reason of the "under God" language. If it wasn't in there, he would encourage his children to say it. Besides, those words were added in the 1950's to strike a difference between us and the supposedly "godless" commies in the USSR. They are not part of the original Pledge. Being that obviously those words served their purpose and the commies gave up once they heard our Pledge and realized God was on our side roll, we can take them back out and revert to the original Pledge.
can we also get rid of the 'indivisible' part? that tramples on states rights. come to think of it, lets just get rid of the whole thing. what is the state doing indoctrinating our kids anyway? that's our job..
Well, I'm against the entire thing, being that this is a free country. By virtue of natural law we are the sovereigns and in fact the government should be pledging allegiance to the citizens, not the other way around. I was just responding to the dull-witted sentiment that "love of country" is shown through rote repetition of words which are utterly meaningless to most people by saying that, if that's the way simpleton "patriots" want to do it, they should try to make it as inclusive as possible, and excluding the half of Americans who aren't Christian is not very inclusive.
To me the Pledge of Allegiance is a wedding vow that you're making to this nation. For all that it provides and sacrifices for me, the least I can do is pledge my allegiance to it. The under god part should be optional. If you don't want to say it, skip it. If you want to say it, go ahead.
I went to 12 years of catholic school. We were required every morning to say the pledge as follows: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic for which is stands, one nation under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn. I actually had no idea the bolded portion was not in the actual pledge until my sophmore year of highschool.
that's fair. i would say that reciting the pledge does indoctrinate children to its contents, so it's past time it goes.
a state that tramples its side of the constitutional contract does not deserve a pledge of allegiance.
It is the ideals and principals that I am pledging too, not the people in charge. And then their are the soldiers who lost life and limb in order for me to live in this country. I personally feel as if I would be disrespecting them if I chose not to make this pledge. This country is far from great and has many flaws and problems, but it is still one of the greatest nations in the world.
because its not an originial part of the pledge. Original 1892: I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. modified in 1924: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. current version 1954: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all you can't force people in a public school to stand up and recite it. I went to Catholic School, I did not have such a choice, not that I cared.
