Poor misguided democrats to hound Trump on tax cut bill.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by logical1, Dec 25, 2017.

  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    30,520
    Likes Received:
    12,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "I don't see a deal" tweeted by the President before the meeting even starts means that the meeting is just for show and to give their fanatic base the talking point that they were "invited", but their proposals would not be considered.

    Ok... now you're just using a strawman. I didn't say they don't care. I said they are intelligent enough to understand that this is just chump change. People will and should take whatever they can get from the tax-cuts-for--the-rich bill, because they will have to pay it back with interest. And I mean all of it. Not just the part that they got.

    It's not like this has never been done before. Bush did it, and it contributed greatly to getting us into a crisis.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  2. ScotchCAOgold

    ScotchCAOgold Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    247
    Trophy Points:
    43
    You prove you own previous statement to be untrue and even though you quoted him a little more accurately this time you still we're selective in your quote and left out the rest of what he said. Then to say their proposals would not be considered which is also not true to his statement.

    You were clear on your statement about Trump's tweet and the middle class on the tax bill, and you were wrong and misleading on both.
     
  3. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    25,426
    Likes Received:
    8,068
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You mean all 17 of them??????????????????????
     
  4. InanimateCarbonRod

    InanimateCarbonRod Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Messages:
    720
    Likes Received:
    478
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I've seen this as a common theme from trump apologists who for some reason are fine defending this giveaway to the 1%. The problem is that alt right degenerates did nothing but cry about the deficit when we had a real president. Now, deficit spending in the name of making the rich richer, while doing little to nothing to help middle class America, is just peachy. Further, "keeping more of their money" ignores the numerous side effects of such an action. Deficit bomb? Check? Motivate hiring? Nope. Stopping companies from stashing profits overseas? Nope. Bring back manufacturing? Trump's own brand is still made in China.

    There's far too much evidence of trickle down nonsense being ineffective and doing nothing at all to help the middle class, but let's just keep doing the same thing over and over and expect different results? There's a word for that. Insanity.
     
    Lesh likes this.
  5. cyndibru

    cyndibru Active Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    231
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Define middle class....oh, that's right, there is no set definition. Frankly, while I would consider you middle class, a lot of people wouldn't. And yes, I'm sure the ACA helped your son and his wife.....and that's the point, they are NOT 6 figure income people. But YOU are. And you're complaining about a $1000 tax increase. But I'm supposed to be cool that my premiums went up $4000 a year and keep climbing because it "helps" people like your son. Sorry, but as they say, there are winners and losers, and there were a lot more upper middle class losers with the ACA than there are with the tax cuts, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for the few being affect this time around, especially since their high tax states are the main issue.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  6. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    30,520
    Likes Received:
    12,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Most definitely true! And we know this because of the way they approved their tax plan: behind closed doors and negotiating among themselves. We know it was for show. They would never have included anything Democrats wanted because it would ruin their promises to one or the other wing of the Republican Party.

    They knew this before they went in. But Trump's tweet made it absolutely clear. It happened throughout the Obama administration, Republicans would negotiate this and that, and when everything was agreed on, they pulled out (see ACA, see Immigration reform, ... and many more). Why would that change now that the President will sign whatever they pass.
     
  7. ScotchCAOgold

    ScotchCAOgold Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    247
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Not true. There is no way to twist his words in the way you are attempting. Democrats took the easy way out and were never going to negotiate in the first place, they used what he said as an excuse. Your spin doesn’t change facts, he did not deny them or cancel.....they did.
     
  8. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2015
    Messages:
    28,121
    Likes Received:
    19,402
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The bill is now law. The discussion is over.
     
  9. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    30,520
    Likes Received:
    12,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ok. If not Trump, at least his supporters, need to start understanding that what a President says has consequences. Nobody should ever assume that a President is lying. Not even this pathological liar we have now. So if the President says that he doesn't see a deal... then he doesn't see a deal.... period. This means there are no points in which they could negotiate. Nothing he would give in to. Nothing that they could agree on. And no point in engaging on negotiations.

    Trump supporters haven't even begun to understand what the consequences of electing an incompetent President are. It's almost a year... you guys need to start learning already.... It's your responsibility as a citizen (assuming, of course, that you're a citizen). Because, eventually, you'll be asked to do this all over again. And if you haven't learned by then, you will make the same mistake.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  10. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,548
    Likes Received:
    34,476
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hmmm, you mean no deal on tying unrelated things like DACA to a bill?

    The only checked it and the Democrats have had since the beginning is to resist. That means they would not allow any successful legislation to pass that would be good for Trump. That means that no matter what they would never have voted for any tax cuts.
     
  11. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    30,520
    Likes Received:
    12,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A deal could be anything that removed things that harm people who are not billionaires that Republicans want, and included those that benefit people other than billionaires, which is what Democrats want.

    If all the Republicans can produce is what's good for Trump and billionaires like Trump, then you are correct. They would never have voted for welfare for the rich. Tbe strategy of Democrats is, in fact, to resist these fascist stratagems. Ideally they will be resisted through negotiations. But Trump made it clear he will have none of that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
    Guno likes this.
  12. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,548
    Likes Received:
    34,476
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is funny to see the democrats fighting for the rich in blue states. After all, that is why they were against the tax bill.
     
  13. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    27,770
    Likes Received:
    4,920
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course when Ryan starts to cut Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security to pay for the tax cut that primarlly benefit the rich they might actually figure out they have been had once again.
     
  14. ScotchCAOgold

    ScotchCAOgold Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    247
    Trophy Points:
    43
    In saying “meeting with ‘Chuck and Nancy’ today about keeping government open and working,” he proves his willingness and intent to meet. “I dont see a deal” does not mean there isnt one, does not mean the meeting is cancelled, does not mean they are not invited, does not mean he is unwilling to make a deal. The weak Dems used it as an excuse like you are
     
  15. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    30,520
    Likes Received:
    12,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No. It just means that the meeting is pointless. I'm sure Chuck and Nancy can find more interesting people to hang out with than an uneducated dope like Trump.

    BTW, it can mean one, and only one, of two things. One is that he is unwilling to make a deal. The other is that he's lying. But, as I said before, nobody in power should ever assume that the POTUS is lying. Not because of the person, but because of the Office they swore to faithfully execute. And even though Trump has violated his Oath of Office again and again, we should never get used to it. He'll only be there for a short period of time. And then (hopefully) we'll go back to having real President who does deserve the respect of the Office.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  16. Wehrwolfen

    Wehrwolfen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    25,350
    Likes Received:
    5,257
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Wehrwolfen

    Wehrwolfen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    25,350
    Likes Received:
    5,257
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    10,833
    Likes Received:
    4,091
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This tax bill has a Trojan horse. Its called chained CPI. Basically it means that the government will be calculating inflation differently so that it assumes inflation goes up much less than it really does. This will result in tax brackets not being adjusted upward as quickly for inflation which means your income will start moving into higher tax brackets and you will be paying higher taxes. Also since inflation is assumed to be lower your social security benefit will begin to decline over time when adjusted for real inflation.
    https://www.investopedia.com/taxes/how-gop-tax-bill-affects-you/
     
  19. ScotchCAOgold

    ScotchCAOgold Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    247
    Trophy Points:
    43
    So you agree then that he did not cancel the meeting or ban them from coming, as you said earlier.

    Has anything ever happened that you didn’t see? Then your notion of he is either lying or unwilling to make a deal is disingenuous.
     
  20. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    30,520
    Likes Received:
    12,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are you out of your mind? When did I say that?

    Is it possible that fanatics who follow an idol who is a pathological liar somehow become infected with their deity's same disease? Or is it that they just grow so accustomed to living in a fantasy world that they no longer know the difference between fantasy from reality?
     
  21. ScotchCAOgold

    ScotchCAOgold Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2015
    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    247
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Here’s when you said it in direct response to being Asked about why you were saying they were banned or cancelled
    Daying I dont see a deal is not the same as cancelling, banning, or not considering a deal. You have disingenuously misrepresented his comments multiple times
     

Share This Page