Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Accidents?

WillReadmore:

In my previous reply, I asked you what the term "survival of the fittest" means to you. You not only evaded the question, you went right back to repeating your previous lame argument about mutations resulting in the refinement of various organisms.

Furthermore, this thread has nothing to do with mutations and "survival of the fittest," because those types of topics are connected to Darwin's Macroevolution myth. I informed you of that in my last response.

I will not discuss evolution myth within this thread. If you want to discussion evolution, click this link and it will take you to my thread dealing with that topic:
http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/darwins-macroevolution-why-unscientific.246629/

Alter2Ego

 

And where did your god come from?

 

The reason they are "related to each other" is clear when we understand how the elements are produced, and I do mean "are" produced, as they are constantly being created today from hydrogen in stars by atomic fusion. Do you need me to explain this? It also makes it relatively easy to predict the existence of elements never before seen. So there is no proof of god in this. It's all very logical and provable.

Yes. As I just said. And no mystery or god involved. If we can count, we can see the "order" to which you refer... one proton, two protons, three protons, etc. etc.

What about the numerical order of numbers? Did god create "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, ..." etc.? What about the Commutative, Associative and Distributive laws of mathematics? Did god create them?

Yes. Reality does tend to be consistent. Imagine is sometimes things fell upward! Imagine if sometimes water was DRY!

That is like asking us to imagine laying out 4 stones on a table and asking if it wouldn't be a miracle to then be able to add a fifth stone to them. Fusion "precisely" adds on proton to helium to make lithium with 3 protons, etc. etc.

That's the same as asking whether God made two to follow one, and three to follow two. It's called "reality".

By now I really hope you know the answer to that.

 

First, answer a question for ME. ... When the ancient Christians asserted that the sun and all planets revolved around the earth, why didn't they know the truth about it?

 

The thing is, you can't really argue that there is no alternative to the creation myth while also demanding that alternatives to the creation myth not be mentioned.

I think you need a thorough understanding of evolution in order to make solid arguments against it. That, too, won't come without discussion of evolution to at least some extent.

 

Small "g"!? That is not our God... may be one of yours,

 

OK. Where did you God come from?

 

HE has always been.

 

I actually have less problem with that than I have with the idea that mankind can know exactly what it is that God did and did not do and how he did it.

I don't see a justificaion for being so confident in the "god did it exactly like this" answer that other explanations derived from observation are simply discarded as heritical - actual attacks on the very notion of there being a god!!

Cowper said god works in mysterious ways. But, when it comes to the advent of humans on earth? It's god rubbing together spit and dust - some absolutely KNOW that!! Someone took dictation from GOD on that!

 

Could god have created an environment such that without his further assistance one or more universes would develop with one of those universes naturally evolving humans on one of its trillions of planets?

Or, is that too much to expect a god could do?

 

Well then the Universe has always been. No creator is needed.

 

JET3534:

As soon as you can provide a credible explanation for how our universe is fine-tuned for life--without the intervention of Jehovah--you will have made a point. Scientific fact says precision within our universe CANNOT happen by itself.

Alter2Ego

 

JET3534:

You got the answer from ToddWB: God has always existed. That is the reason why He is Almighty--because he is all powerful, and because he has no beginning and no end. Jehovah is from everlasting to everlasting.

“Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the productive land, from everlasting to everlasting, you are God.” (Psalms 90:2 -- King James Bible)

Alter2Ego

 

So when we don't know something, the answer is God did it? Based on what evidence? Where is your evidence for your God? Note: A magic book (much of which is proven to be false) is not evidence.

 

That is your claim. What is your evidence for this claim?

 

A piece of evidence? The Image on the Shroud... when there is no other explanation


The Question of Questions
Looming above all other issues is what physicist Paolo Di Lazzaro calls “the question of questions”: how the image was produced, regardless of its age. Every scientific attempt to replicate it in a lab has failed. Its precise hue is highly unusual, and the color’s penetration into the fabric is extremely thin, less than 0.7 micrometers (0.000028 inches), one-thirtieth the diameter of an individual fiber in a single 200-fiber linen thread.

Di Lazzaro and his colleagues at Italy’s National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (ENEA) conducted five years of experiments, using state-of-the-art excimer lasers to train short bursts of ultraviolet light on raw linen, in an effort to simulate the image’s coloration. The ENEA team, which published its findings in 2011, came tantalizingly close to approximating the image’s distinctive hue on a few square centimeters of fabric. But they were unable to match all the physical and chemical characteristics of the shroud image. Nor could they reproduce a whole human figure.
The ultraviolet light necessary to do so “exceeds the maximum power released by all ultraviolet light sources available today,” says Di Lazzaro. It would require “pulses having durations shorter than one forty-billionth of a second, and intensities on the order of several billion watts.”

If the most advanced technologies available in the 21st century could not produce a facsimile of the shroud image, he reasons, how could it have been executed by a medieval forger?

.. yes.. we believe God did it...

Creation of life outside the realm of an intelligent being? the probability of just atoms linking to form to start the formation of a part of an amino acid is 1 x 10 to the 50th.... there aren't 1 x 10 th the 50th atoms in the known universe.

Science can't show how God didn't do it, Science shows us how God did it.​

 

You say that like it's a fact rather than you own unsupportable opinion.

 

They have no clue how it happened, they just know God had nothing to do with it. Nobody has ever observed non-life becoming life.

There is more information in what Darwin thought a simple cell than in several sets of encyclopedias. Where have we ever seen information that wasn't put there by intelligence?

 

Excellent point on the Shroud of Turin. If genuine, it is essentially photographic evidence of the Resurrection.

 

All good questions. Believing random evolution is like thinking given enough time a tornado could go through a junkyard and deposit a fully-functioning, ready for takeoff jet plane, and it still wouldn't explain were the junk came from. It is believing nothing times nobody equals everything.

 

JET3534:

The evidence that Jehovah is everlasting (has no beginning and no end) is found within scripture from his INSPIRED WORD, the BIBLE, which I already quoted from Psalms 90:2, using the King James Bible. Below is the very same verse of scripture, this time, from a different Bible translation.

"Before the mountains themselves were born, or you proceeded to bring forth as with labor pains the earth and the productive land, even from time indefinite to time indefinite you are God." (Psalms 90:2 -- New World Translation)

Alter2Ego

 

God is real because the Bible says so. The Bible is real because it is inspired by God.

See anything wrong with this logic?

 

It is pointless to discuss this.since your very ew is intimately attached to your faith

Never the less, imo your “proof” fails for the following reason. The proof relies on common sense: it is just common sense that precision emerges from design.... which necessarily implies a designer.

Unfortunately, common sense is not reliable. Common sense tells us the earth is flat; common sense tells us we are at the center of the universe with the sun and the moon moving around us... not vice versa.

There is an entire field of emergent.... that is design that emerges naturally without any plan. Here is an example



Other example are putting a magnet under a sheet of paper then sprinkling iron filings on top


Perhaps you will claim very such emergent design yet further illustrates the miraculous nature of the “ design”. In which case you have assumed the answer in the question... you have started with the presumption that where ever you see design, it is dependent on a designer.

 

Unknowable. Next.

 

It sure wasn't an accident.