Probability Alien Life Watching Us Cannot be Determined

Discussion in 'Science' started by FlamingLib, Sep 29, 2018.

  1. BULGARICA

    BULGARICA Banned

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    I hope they aren't watching us, though unlikely.

    If they're watching the human race, they'll think we have "retardation", as said by Borat himself.

    If they read this: I'm ashamed. Can you nuke us already?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
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  2. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    But if you watch the video I posted with former Naval Intelligence officer Luiz Elizondo head of the NSA project to track these even, he describes many incidents of multiple contacts with objects BOTH tracked by radar and observed visibly by trained air force pilots who pursued these objects both visibly and through electronics. He describes these vehicles able to perform maneuvers that no vehicle on Earth could possibly equal. He describes The case of Naval Cmdr. David Fravor is a case in point:

    "For most of his 18-year career as a U.S. Navy pilot, Cmdr. David Fravor said his mother-in-law used to ask him a question: Had he seen a UFO? For 15 years, the answer was no.

    But one clear afternoon off the coast of California in 2004, he says, that changed.

    Fravor, the commanding officer of a Navy squadron at the time, said he saw a flying object about the size of his plane that looked like a Tic Tac after a break in a routine training mission. The object moved rapidly and unlike any other thing he had ever seen in the air. He has not forgotten it since.

    Fravor’s story emerged this week after the Pentagon publicly acknowledged for the first time the existence of a recent program dedicated to studying unidentified flying objects. The funding for what was known as the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program ran from 2007 to 2012. But officials familiar with it said some of its efforts have continued."

    "Fravor says he is certain about one thing: “It was a real object, it exists and I saw it,” he said in a phone interview on Monday, as he described the sighting, on Nov. 14, 2004.

    Asked what he believes it was, 13 years later, he was unequivocal.

    “Something not from the Earth,” he said.

    Fravor was the commanding officer of the VFA-41 Black Aces, a U.S. Navy strike fighter squadron of F/A-18 Hornet fighter planes doing an exercise some 60 to 100 miles off the coast between San Diego and Ensenada, Mexico, in advance of a deployment to the Persian Gulf for the Iraq War, he said.

    An order came in for him to suspend the exercise and do some “real-world tasking,” about 60 miles west of their location, Fravor said. He said he was told by the command that there were some unidentified flying objects descending from 80,000 feet to 20,000 feet and disappearing; he said officials told him they had been tracking a couple dozen of these objects for a few weeks.

    When they arrived closer to the point, they saw the object, flying around a patch of white water in the ocean below.

    “A white Tic Tac, about the same size as a Hornet, 40 feet long with no wings,” Fravor described. “Just hanging close to the water.”

    The object created no rotor wash — the visible air turbulence left by the blades of a helicopter — he said, and began to mirror the pilots as they pursued it, before it vanished.

    “As I get closer, as my nose is starting to pull back up, it accelerates and it’s gone,” he said. “Faster than I’d ever seen anything in my life. We turn around, say let’s go see what’s in the water and there’s nothing. Just blue water.”

    [Head of Pentagon’s secret ‘UFO’ office sought to make evidence public]

    Fravor’s plane headed back to USS Nimitz aircraft carrier, but a separate crew that had taken off toward the object began to search for it, tracking it for about a minute and a half and shooting a video, Fravor said."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...cret-pentagon-program/?utm_term=.070dab35bf0e

    So, multiple radar contacts that came from the Nimitz before Fravor had even seen it and then sent him and other pilots to pursue at which point multiple eyewitness contacts from airforce fighter pilots at which point the thing ups and disappears using speeds and aerodynamics that are impossible under our current technology. And these occurrences are so common that Naval Intelligence had a secret program to track and verify as objects that moved with these specifications could be a danger to national security.

    Here's another account from the Independent quoting a story in the NYT:

    "Commander David Fravor and Lieutenant Commander Jim Slaight were on a routine training mission 100 miles out into the Pacific when they were asked to investigate the object.


    The object had been detected appearing suddenly at 80,000ft by the USS Princeton, a Naval cruiser, which had been tracking mysterious aircraft for two weeks.

    “Look at that thing, dude,” one of the pilots is heard exclaiming in the clip. “It’s rotating.”

    Commander Fravor told The New York Times the object was about 40ft long, had no plumes, wings or rotors, and outpaced their F-18s. It was big enough to churn the sea 50ft below it, he said.

    “I have no idea what I saw... It accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen,” he added, admitting he was “pretty weirded out”.

    The pilots’ Navy superiors did not investigate any further and it remains unclear what the object was. Experts say there is usually a worldly explanation for apparent UFO sightings and caution that an absence of an explanation is not proof of extraterrestrial life."

    "The Pentagon said the AATIP closed five years ago when defence officials shifted attention and funding to other priorities.


    But it was less clear about whether officials continue to investigate claimed UFO sightings. According to its backers, the programme remains in existence in some form.

    The programme’s initial funding came largely at the request of former Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid, known for his enthusiasm for space phenomena.

    “The AATIP ended in the 2012 timeframe,” Pentagon spokesperson Laura Ochoa said.

    “It was determined that there were other, higher priority issues that merited funding and it was in the best interest of the DoD to make a change,” she added.

    Asked if the department continued to investigate sightings, she said: “The DoD takes seriously all threats and potential threats to our people, our assets, and our mission and takes action whenever credible information is developed.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...bf9d112159c_story.html?utm_term=.ae84c6afd465


    How about airforce captain Robert Salas experience at Malmstrom Missile base?

    "Two years later, in 1967, Robert Salas was stationed at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana. The former Air Force captain was monitoring a launch-control center equipped with 10 nuclear Minuteman missiles when UFOs appeared in the sky above them just as something unexpected occurred to the 10 defense weapons.

    "As we looked at the display board in front of us, the missiles began going into an unlaunchable, or no-go, mode. They couldn't be launched -- it went from green to red," Salas told AOL, explaining how it was extraordinary that so many missiles could malfunction at the same time.

    In the aftermath of that incident, Salas and his crew were told to keep quiet. He reported, "They wanted us to sign papers, saying we'd never talk about this and swear we wouldn't even talk to our wives or any of the other airmen on the base -- nobody."

    Here you can watch Mark Kelly's interview on CBC with both Salas and Elizondo again:



    haha....naval intelligence and the NSA knows this is going on and has had serious study groups to investigate the threat to national security but you can't be convinced there is a shred of evidence? If you have navy photographs, radar data and eyewitness accounts of these physical phenomena, then how can you not say this is evidence? Is nothing real to you? There have been all kinds of these incidents over the years from the battle over DC to foo fighters reported during the war to the Belgian wave. If you dismiss all as no evidence then you are are clearly playing the Randi game, but that is okay if it keeps you sleeping well at night.

    upload_2018-10-17_14-11-38.jpeg

    Released by the dept. of Defense.

    This is all the time I really want to spend on the "not a shred of evidence" argument but I agree that none of this is empirical evidence of aliens. They are simply unexplained phenomena at the moment.
     
  3. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    You have no circumstantial evidence, as every single bit of it can be explained by much less extraordinary phenomena. Radar errors occur. People make mistakes, lie, hallucinate, have false memories, and confuse dreams with real experiences. All of these easily explain away every bit of alleged circumstantial evidence you have, and these explanations are all much simpler and are supported by mountains of empirical evidence as being actual events.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  4. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    My circumstantial evidence comes in the forms of religious writings, and the artifacts left to play with.
    Nothing can be proven, until one day the dam will break and open up a myriad of factual information.
    As of right now, there is nothing as fact.
    Many cannot be explained rationally, and the UFO claim may be the one that outlasts them all.
     
  5. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    If something is only evidence to the beholder, that is precisely what makes it NOT evidence.
    I seriously doubt that. I doubt it so seriously that I will declare it false, and go further by saying you cannot name one single example that cannot be rationally explained by ideas simpler and more well documented than the idea of aliens visiting earth.
     
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  6. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    One I gave was Puma Punka.

    I can't think of any other rational answer.
     
  7. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Another is the Hindu religion, that evolves around advanced tech, flying machines, WMD's.
    And wars between space races.

    Written 4000 to 6000 years ago.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  8. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    I don't find that to be much of a challenge. The features of Puma Punku are not a mystery to archaeologists. And the tales you hear of it are generally embellished and exaggerated, such as the weight of the stones and their makeup.
     
  9. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    No it doesn't. Not sure what else to say to that.
     
  10. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    No it is not. It is a total mystery. People are grasping for reasons, and accepting any answer, to go on to the next subject.

    Just type in Puma Punka, and click images.
     
  11. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Are you claiming the religion does not say that.

    They speak of Viminas, nuclear war.
    Volumes are written on flying machines, propulsion systems, weapons.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  12. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Now Puma Punka does not prove aliens, but the other possibility was we had an advanced society all over the earth thousands of years ago, and blew it up, sending us back into the stone age.
     
  13. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    Except, it isn't, outside of the exact tools and techniques used. We have plausible guesses and just dont know which one is correct. That is in no way circumstantial evidence for alien activity or any other extraordinary explanation.

    And no, the Hindu religion does not speak of nuclear explosions or flying machines. That is "snap-to-fit" nonsense. Hindu myths description flying castles and chariots. By what twist of unreason does this morph into a description of flying machines? This is just the result of some mystic imagining things that dwell on the ground flying through the air by magical means.

    If I described a bicycle flying through the sky (think: ET), one would have to be mentally oppressed by some sort of confining preconception to declare I was describing flying machines using some sort of prescience, or that I had witnessed advanced technology.

    No, if i described this, you would just call it "fiction".
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  14. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

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    Ancient Aliens is an entertainment series not a documentary...just so you know. YOUR answer is to repeat a history channel show.
     
  15. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    [​IMG]
    See these cuts, this is granite and dyerite, two of the hardest stones on earth,

    These objects were machined, maybe 10.000 years ago, not made by banging rocks together.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  16. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    I don't recall anyone quoting them.
     
  17. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

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    Nor did I say they did.
     
  18. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    This is a subject that fascinated me since the 70's, but back then, you had to go to a library, hoping they had a book on what you were looking for.

    Now we have the internet, and the thousands of sites all over the earth, are at your fingertips.
     
  19. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    No, as the civilization that made them existed from about 400 BC to 1000 AD.

    And no, they were not machined. And no, they are not granite, but rather red sandstone, which is actually a soft rock and easy to cut and shape.
     
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  20. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

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    …..neat.....
     
  21. Mamasaid

    Mamasaid Banned

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    ...full of sites that will lie to you by saying these stones are granite and machined 10,000 years ago.
     
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  22. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Total fail.

    No, the carvings around the pyramids of Egypt, are in sandstone, which is easier to carve, but another story altogether.

    I like using these as an example because they are in granite,
    The dates are impossible to accurately make in stone, so the surrounding organic material is used.
    However when the Spaniards discovered these, the tech did not exist to make them, in Europe, much less on the desolate mountians of Peru.
     
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  23. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    I use the word "Machined" because, as a tech myself, I can look at virtually any object, and tell you if it was hand made, or machine made.

    These were machine made.
    And remember, I posted one picture.
    There are thousands, indicating cutting stone was easy for these people..
     
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  24. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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  25. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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