Prophets of God, The devil and Life.

What are Prophets? Were they persons who spoke as God moved upon them? Were they ones by whom future 'prophetic' warnings and blessings came through? Did they recount the past history; were they as historians? What were the Prophets?

Question: "Is Lucifer Satan? Does the fall of Lucifer describe Satan?"

Answer: There is no verse in the Bible that says, “Lucifer is Satan,” but an examination of several passages reveals that Lucifer can be none other than Satan. The fall of Lucifer described in Isaiah 14:12 is likely the same that Jesus referred to in Luke 10:18: "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” A similar fall is depicted in Ezekiel 28.

Isaiah 14:12–18 describes the fall from heaven of one called “Lucifer,” a name that means “morning star,” “son of the dawn,” “Day Star / Daystar,” or “shining star.” The description of the one referred to shows us it can be none other than Satan. We know from Jesus’ own words in Luke 10 that Satan fell from heaven. So, when Isaiah refers to Lucifer (In Hebrew, helel) being cast down to earth (Isaiah 14:12), it can be none other than Satan. The reason for his fall is found in verses 13 and 14: “You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’” This has always been Satan’s desire—to be God—and it is the very temptation he used in the garden of Eden to get Eve to disobey God: “You shall be as God” (Genesis 3:5).
https://www.gotquestions.org/Lucifer-Satan.html


At one point, articles and websites such as the above were as sure as stone. When a person read it, they had to accept it as Truth. However, today it is not the case.


Isaiah was a Prophet. Isaiah prophesied about Jesus. And Isaiah prophesied about Lucifer also. So when Isaiah spoke of Jesus, was he, Isaiah, referring to Jesus in the 'past tense'? And when Isaiah prophesied about Lucifer, was Isaiah recalling another 'past' event?

Also the word 'satan' which means adversary, foe, accuser, slanderer, enemy, etc... And also with the verse

2 Corinthians 11:12-14
"But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."


False Apostles, deceitful workers.. those who transform themselves into 'saintly' ones when confronted of wrong doing.

And even 'satan', the enemy, the foe, the slanderer, the accuser, himself/themselves, transforms himself/themselves into 'angels' of innocence. Therefore it is no great thing if those that do similarly also transforms themselves into 'angels' of innocence.

But then who is the one main 'Satan'? That has ministers?

To whom do people 'minister' themselves to?

Lady Gaga has a song that says, 'I was born that way'. For each person who accepts this saying, to whom do you think they are ministering their beliefs towards?

Jeremiah 17:9
"he heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

The heart is deceitful above what things? Above ALL things.
The heart is how 'wicked'? Desperately wicked.
Who can know the 'heart'? Who can know it?

So to whom are humans ministering themselves unto?

Notwithstanding to say however that the person Lucifer of Isaiah is a real being. Just as the antiChrist will say all those things which Lucifer will say, so too, is the antiChrist.

Daniel 11:36-39
"And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain."

 

Lucifer seems nicer than Yahweh. But I guess the winner writes history.

 

You left out the main part of the OT where Satan is actually referred to and described to some degree. The Book of Job.

In Job, Satan is depicted as being obedient to God. We are told that Satan is one of God's son's and the relationship is one of Father and Son.
Job 1: 6-7 "One day the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

God boasts to Satan about how how Job fears God and shun's evil. Satan chides his father saying ... well yeah Dad .. you gave him everything anyone could want .. try taking that stuff away and see what happens.

God takes Satan up on his challenge ..but tells Satan not to harm Job. You can read the rest of the story for yourself but the upshot is that Satan only acts according to what God allows. Satan is doing Gods will by testing Job.

The story of Jesus in the desert with Satan is a parallel to the story of Job. Just like Job Jesus is tested.

A similar parallel can be drawn with the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. Just like Job - Adam and Eve are tested.

 

Lucifer, the one mentioned in Isaiah, is an anti Christ. He does not believe that Jesus has come to Earth as stated in The Holy Bible.

1 John 4:3
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

 

Here is my take on the account of Job.

One day the hearts of men came before God to present themselves before the Lord, and also the hearts which held accusations and spite. The Lord said to those accusative hearts, where have you come from?

The accusative heart chides God saying, well yeah Lord, you gave him everything anyone could want. Try taking that stuff away and see what happens.

God takes those accusative hearts up on their challenges but tells those hearts to do no harm to him.

So for what purpose would God 'agree' with the accusative hearts in any and every Generation?

Ezekiel 33:11
"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live:..."

 

Nice try at avoiding the uncomfortable mention of the "Sons of God" but, this is not the only mention.

The reality is that the God of Abraham was "EL" chief God of the Sumerian Pantheon. The Israelite's after Moses believed in a Divine Council .. a Pantheon. This did not make them polytheistic as they only worshiped YHWH.... or rather, were only supposed to worship YHWH. The Israelite's did not spend much time worshiping YHWH. The story in the Deuteronomy has El dividing up the nations among his son's. The descendants of Jacob were given to YHWH.

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

Over time the pantheistic nature of the Israelite religion was slowly erased. (See Page 7 in above link). After comparing the Masoretic Text (7-900AD) to the older Qumran and LXX ( pre AD). Compare the verse in question to a modern Bible. The meaning is completely lost and altered.

El is also referenced in Psalm 82. http://www.jhsonline.org/Articles/article_144.pdf

That El was the God of Abraham (or at least figured prominently) is no longer much debated among serious scholars.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Abraham

 

Is this what you really believe The Holy Bible is telling you?

 

Yes ... it is all in the Holy Bible. All the evidence in the links given you are from the Holy Bible (links which you clearly did not read)... which version of the Holy Bible are you referring to btw ?

Clearly you have not read the Bible with any objectivity. If you had you would realize that what is in the Bible differs greatly from spoon fed dogma.

 

Well regardless... If you didn't find something amiss in your life, you would be enjoying your life rather than trying to teach about The Bible to those who might be seeking Truths from The Holy Bible.

If I had the incomes as some do, I would most definitely probably not be on this Forum.

 

You are free to live in what ever fantasy you wish. This is no reason to shoot the messenger - demonize those who present information that conflicts with spoon fed dogma.

I seek the Truth and let the chips fall where they may. The one who has issues is the one who tries to fit the Bible into man made dogma rather than read what the Bible has to say.

You are not seeking the truth from the Holy Bible. You are trying to make the Bible fit into dogma so that you can pretend that this dogma is the truth.

If you are seeking the Truth .. at least the Truth according to Jesus .. read the Sermon on the Mount "Objectively" = pretend you do not know anything else about Christianity - like someone in the audience listening to Jesus - as the NT did not exist. Matt 5-7

In Matt 7:12 Jesus states the rule that "sums up the law and the prophets". https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7

Once you are finished we can talk about "The Truth" if that is what you are truly interested in.

 

Oy. You're talking to an ex-Christian. Don't throw random Bible verses at me

 

Okay, I'm ready to discuss what the Truth is.

"If you are seeking the Truth .. at least the Truth according to Jesus .. read the Sermon on the Mount "Objectively" = pretend you do not know anything else about Christianity - like someone in the audience listening to Jesus - as the NT did not exist. Matt 5-7 "


If I was there, would I try to listen to him objectively because His words were not clear enough for me?

 

This was what was posted..

"Nice try at avoiding the uncomfortable mention of the "Sons of God" but, this is not the only mention.

The reality is that the God of Abraham was "EL" chief God of the Sumerian Pantheon. The Israelite's after Moses believed in a Divine Council .. a Pantheon. This did not make them polytheistic as they only worshiped YHWH.... or rather, were only supposed to worship YHWH. The Israelite's did not spend much time worshiping YHWH. The story in the Deuteronomy has El dividing up the nations among his son's. The descendants of Jacob were given to YHWH.

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf

Over time the pantheistic nature of the Israelite religion was slowly erased. (See Page 7 in above link). After comparing the Masoretic Text (7-900AD) to the older Qumran and LXX ( pre AD). Compare the verse in question to a modern Bible. The meaning is completely lost and altered.

El is also referenced in Psalm 82. http://www.jhsonline.org/Articles/article_144.pdf

That El was the God of Abraham (or at least figured prominently) is no longer much debated among serious scholars


Show me how God took a race of people, the Sons of Jacob,and show me how the Israelites AFTER Moses, believed in a Divine Council, a Pantheon. And show me how they were not polytheistic with this pantheon belief. And show me how they did not spend much time worshipping YHWH. And show me how the story in Deuteronomy has God dividing up the nations among his son's. And show me how ONLY the descendants of Jacob were 'GIVEN' to YHWH.

 

And instead of giving me pages to read, please explain it in your own words.

 

So it is evident that it is your interpretation which is of the 'dogma' of the humans which wrote all those pages which you referred to. It is not God's Word but human words, right?

And so if you claim that every human being can claim God's Word without God directly giving it to him, you might be correct into surmising that the Old Testament Prophets were nothing more than 'normal' humans who just wrote whatever it may have been on their hearts. They may not have been 'ordained', for a lack of better words, to have God directly speak to them so as to have them pen down what was spoken. They were everyday Joes and Bills that decided to claim for themselves the Prophetic roles which put their lives in very severe danger of being killed, is that what you are saying?

If you have such a 'low' light regarding the Prophets of God in the Old Testament, your idea of God can't be too much higher.


And so yes, I would like to discuss Truth.

 

Isaiah 14:12-17
"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?"


Ezekiel 28

Prophecy against the King of Tyre

"1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

2Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

3Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

4With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:

5By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

6Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

8They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

10Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

A Lament over the King of Tyre

11Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."


Isaiah 14
"All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned."


What 'fallen angel' would need riches and such and what 'fallen angel' lives as a 'man'?


Ezekiel 28:5
"By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

6Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;"

Could this person have begun to set his heart as the heart of God because of his 'riches' and his supposedly 'divine works' which may have been granted to him to perform in the sight of all men?


Revelation 13
"11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."


2 Thessalonians 2:11
"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."


This person will lie to the people and say there is nothing 'wrong' or 'sinful' except to be Judgmental to personal choices.

And if this person was not taken out of the way, the whole world would become as what? A very hedonistic world with every person not having a fear of God in any sense of the word. Because to them, this person who allows all manners of sin, would be God.

But guess what??? This person is only a person who is a child of some set of real human parents.

And it is from within this that a concerned person can begin to think... why would any human being want to play with such danger? And so of course this person would be an antiChrist. A person who does not even believe that Christ came into the world. Because if Christ did not come into this world, as The Holy Bible says, then everything about The Holy Bible is as a myth.

Even when this person will have such abilities to draw fire from heaven onto the earth, he will not have any cognizance of how it was achieved. And so because of his lack of knowledge, he will actually believe himself to be God. Yet he forgets all his childhood times. He forgets who he is. He forgets his highschool friends and hangouts. He becomes some kind of strange human being not even realizing that what he does, pulling fire down from heaven, is not a normal occurrence. And it doesn't phaze him. It makes him believe the more and more that he was born from his mother's womb to be some 'Great God'. Hitler and a few others had this mentality.

Yet with all of these men who had this 'ideas of grandeur' thinking, illicit drug use was a part of ALL their lives. Drugs has caused them to be how they are with their 'grandeur thoughts' of themselves.

The clinical term is:
megalomania

Definition of megalomania

1. 
   
   
   • 1: a mania (see mania 2a) for great or grandiose performance an outburst of wildly extravagant commercial megalomania — The Times Literary Supplement (London)
   • 2: a delusional mental illness that is marked by feelings of personal omnipotence and grandeur

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/megalomania

One has to be careful to not let the term fall back on oneself through 'guilt' however. If someone was to turn this around on the person who 'defends' themselves with whatever coping mechanism they may have, they may be claimed as Megalomaniac if the other one believes he/she is not falling prey to the attacks. To not fall prey to the powerful foe, many outsiders might begin viewing the defender as a megalomaniac kind of person for believing him/her self as 'greater' than the attacker. But with God in your life, you have to trust that God is for you and not against you.

And you have to remember that no weapon formed against you shall prosper.

Isaiah 54:17
"No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD."


heritage: something that comes or belongs to one by reason of birth; an inherited lot or portion: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/heritage

But the hard part is when the wolves have crept in already. Somehow they have crept in unawares, even into your personal life. When this happens, it can become a little leery because of the people who live in their pleasures of unrighteousness. Being surrounded by such lovers of pleasures of unrighteousness can get difficult. And when job duties are not being fulfilled and when complacency has set into the hearts of professionals who are supposed to be doing their job duties but are not, then the Law system of the land begins to crumble. When the Police begins to fail to do their jobs as police officers, then worry might become a normal response.

And the wolves desires is to devour and to devour completely. They are persuaded by loving reason nor caring empathy. Their hearts are bent on devouring and devouring completely.

Yet these 'wolves' are not as anti-Christs, per se. Many Christians probably do not associate with atheists or non believers. But it are the ones who claim they are christians but are not. Rather they are wolves seeking to devour the family of God.

They say they are a Christian, They act like a Believer. The do not use drugs, nor drink alcohol or smoke. They do not curse or use foul language.

Yet they are wolves seeking to devour.

How can a person tell?

Instead of seeing how a wolf can be seen, ask yourself this question.

Does that person bring quality into your life? Godly quality?
Do you share God in your talks with that person?
Can you sing psalms and hymns with each other?
Can you pray together?
Can you read Holy Scripture together?
Can you exalt Christ Jesus together?

If not, then what benefits are you receiving from a person you CANNOT do these things with?

If you are not receiving any benefits, why would you let God's Fruits and Pearls in your life be sucked dry by them being a part of your life?


A person can only spend a certain amount of time trying to share Christ before needing to move on.

Move on if you are in an unGodly relationship. If you are not receiving any Godly benefits, you will probably 'earn' alot more without that person. Move onward and upward in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3:14
"I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."

I PRESS TOWARD - Onward
the HIGH CALLING - Upward

At least 1, ONE, of the joys of a Christian's Life should be Christ Jesus, wouldn't you agree?

 

And most definitely something that should NOT be put away in a drawer of some shelf is this:

Remember that while we were yet sinners God sent His Only Begotten Son to receive unto Himself what we might have received.
Jesus Christ did not come into this world for the righteous but for the sinners.
And because of Their act of Love towards mankind, all Mankind has been purchased by Him so that none can say, 'I was not loved by God'.
So remember that God Loves You and God loves All. He does not love sin however, which the wages thereof, is death.

 

Let's look at Isaiah. The passage you quote is part of the mocking passage to King Nebuchadnezzar. The passage actually describes a myth that comes from the Phonetician pantheon, about the God attar, who tried to replace the dead Baal, and over reached himself and fell. Attar in the Phonetician Religion was referred to as 'the morning star'. In the original Hebrew, it did not refer to Satan at all, but was rather mocking King Neb for trying to over reach his power and predicted he would fall, just like the old myth. It has nothing to do with Ha-satan. The term 'Lucifer' is just the Greek for the Morning star.. and is a translation. So, if you read the original Hebrew, and look at it in context.. then, no, the passage in Isaiah has nothing to do with Satan what so ever.

 

This is how Jesus sums up his sermon (Matt 7)

According to the words of Jesus in this sermon (not the man made dogma you have ingested) what is "the will of the Father" ?

 

Good that you seek the Truth

I do no know what you would do if you were there. Regardless, you can read his words now in Matt 5-7. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7&version=NIV

Do keep in mind "The rule that sums up the law and the prophets - the Golden Rule Matt 7:12" and the many ways that Jesus restates this rule.

After you have read the Sermon on the mount.

This is how Jesus sums up his sermon (Matt 7)

What is the salvation formulation that Jesus gives in this Sermon ?

According to the words of Jesus in this sermon (not man made dogma) what is "the will of the Father" ?

 

A certain person might say, 'It seems as if God created man so that He could force ALL to worship Him. If God created all and if HE had to send HIS Only Begotten Son into the world to 'save', then God could be seen as creating the problem so HE could 'send' the solution. And if noone wants to get cornered into this way of life, then God sends them to 'hell''. A certain person can begin to 'reason' as such.

Why did God have to send His Only Begotten Son to save from 'sin' if all mankind is guilty of sin and if it was God who let this 'sin' problem go on and on, aeons after aeons.

Let's not forget that Adam and Eve are also part of His Creation which They desire to 'save' and we are all children of them and then children of 1 of Noah's sons.

God could have just saved Adam and Eve right there. Then there would have never been a Noah. And God could have saved Noah right there. Then there never would have been a Abraham. Then God could have saved Abraham right there. Then there never would have been Moses.

So why generations after generations after generations? Because men had desires to procreate in the natural ways of procreation.

 

John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:36-38
"But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 6:32-34
"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread."

John 6:35
"And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst."

John 6:38-39
"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

1 John 3:23
"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. "

 

I scrolled through your post without reading any of it. You religious people are comically arrogant.

 

Why are you referencing John ? The discussion is in relation to the Sermon on the Mount which is given in Matt.

What is the salvation formulation given in the Sermon on the Mount and what is the "Will of the Father" according to the words of Jesus in that Sermon.

 

Is the King of Babylon the same as The King of Tyre?