Prosecutors charge parents of Michigan school shooting suspect

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bowerbird, Dec 3, 2021.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    https://www.axios.com/michigan-susp...ged-aae3beda-9e67-40a4-859a-d2d124de01f6.html



    The prosecutor lays out the charges and reasons for the charges very clearly

    I have to say I personally applaud the statement “ Gun ownership is a right and with that right comes great responsibility”.

    I have long said that it is not the number of guns in America or type of gun less than it is the enforcement of responsibility in relation to possession of that firearm
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
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  2. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    I honestly do not give a damn about this story. No I'm not trying to derail the thread, I'm asking: Why is this worthy of national news? A piece of thug garbage killing people they didn't like and then friends/family covering for them literally happens every single day in America. Although lets be honest, usually the people involved are Black and obviously I've answered my own question. But still, I don't think this is newsworthy.
     
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  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Because this could be a start. What if this is successful and it opens the door for other manslaughter or criminal recklessness charges anytime a gun is stolen if it can be proven that the firearm was not secured properly?
     
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  4. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only way to 'enforce responsibility' is by punishing the irresponsible. Which is what is happening here. What gun irresponsibility would you say commonly goes unpunished?
     
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  5. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That has been the law here in WA state for about 5 years now. There has not been in any meaningul increase or decrease in violence (both gun-related and not) since, with the exception of the last year where violence has skyrocketted in urban areas, but that has happened in urban areas across the US.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
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  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Leaving unsecured guns in unsecured cars…….not securing firearms away from children under 16 etc etc etc
     
  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    But THIS is the first time it has had a high profile case

    I expect the NRA to become involved at one point.
     
  8. Winter Sun

    Winter Sun Newly Registered

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    Why are the parents missing? Wth can’t they offer some kind of explanation?
     
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  9. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    The parents should be held responsible for raising someone ok with offing people over his feelings. They should not be held responsible for having a gun in a drawer. In my neck of the woods, 8-10 year old boys and girls have spent the last couple weeks hunting deer with their own firearms.

    Garbage parents raising garbage kids is the problem. Not a gun in a drawer. Geez.
     
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  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And yet research says you are wrong about that. Why do you think the American Academy of Paediatricians advocates for firearms to be under lock and key when there is a child in the house
     
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  11. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Leaving guns unsecured in cars is illegal. I've no problem with revoking someones right to own guns if their kid gets a hold of them unsecured and hurts someone, but thats pretty rare.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
  12. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    A few additional points:

    Kids can act impulsively, regardless of parenting.

    Also, it's arguable psychological easier to shoot people with a gun than grab a knife and stab them.

    And while parents are the chief models for their childrens' behaviour, the local environment has big influence as well.

    A final point: if the kids in your area are as well behaved and raised as you suggest, then legal ramifications for the parents regarding kids' gun use (should the kids hypothetically go awry) will probably never arise?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
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  13. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why would a 'high profile case' make ineffective legislation suddenly effective?
     
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  14. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I got chewed out by some posters for saying the exact same thing. If we want to live in society because we can't live independently and rely on one another to survive, we also have the responsibility to follow the laws of said society.

    Remember that kid who chronicled his journey from planning to commit suicide with his brother and ending it after he killed his parents and grandmother before killing himself? Mentally unstable people, like criminals, aren't going to tell the truth because that doesn't get them what they want. And, those of us that are responsible gun owners know that a gun doesn't make you stronger or bolder or more of a bad @ss than the next guy. We learn to de-escalate in high tension situations.

    I don't know what it's like in your country, but if we can require kids to take driver's education, pass a written test and road test to get the okay to be on the roads with other people, we can certainly figure out a way to implement something *more* than what is happening right now. Nobody should be able to lie on a form, pay some cash and get a weapon.

    This case will probably set the precedent we need to get this under control. It's absolutely ridiculous that we are even having this discussion in 2021. When our founding fathers wrote these rules, weapons were muskets, not high caliber, semi-automatic or fully automatic. It's asinine that this hasn't been figured out already. Follow the money and that will tell us why they just keep wanting to apply Band-Aids when full surgery is required.
     
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  15. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because its more PC than advocating to teach kids about proper firearm safety.
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Research - you know - published findings of studies?

    upload_2021-12-4_17-9-48.jpeg

    https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/at-home/Pages/Handguns-in-the-Home.aspx

     
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  17. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Banned

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    People steal guns from cop cars. Are you OK with charging and convicting the cops of involuntary manslaughter?
     
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  18. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  19. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I think you two are closer to the middle than you think you are. The reality is Americans simply don't care (and I'll get chewed out for writing that). We always talk a big game but, at the end of the day, we're rather self-centered and apathetic about things happening outside our backyard.

    For instance, and this is the exact same "strategy" for EVERYTHING.

    Nancy Reagan said there was no reason that kids were experimenting with drugs because they could "Just Say 'No'". Kids are very impressionable and everyone wants to be liked. We do dumb things as kids and we think we're immortal so where's the harm? That "campaign" failed.

    Dr. Elders was fired for recommending people teach their teens to use condoms. Kids are just supposed to ignore their hormones and abstain (something even many adults can't do).

    When men started coming forward about their childhood sexual abuse by local priests, they were shunned and blamed. We, as a society, did NOT stand behind the victims at all. There are people on this forum and others that say they *deserved* it since they received settlement.

    A little over 20 years ago, my elementary school religion teacher, the priest in our church was brought up on charges. He never violated me but it's very shocking to see your own teacher all over the news and kids you went to school with speaking out. And, because of the way we treat victims of sexual abuse, abusers can do their dirt for years, even decades.

    Nobody paid attention or cared when black and brown people were dying of drug overdoses because of additives that were put in street drugs, but when white, suburban kids started dying, they wanted to run every drug dealer out of the country. The problem with that is our own government is the biggest drug dealer. They don't want to stop it because they are making money off it.

    Mental health professionals are another group that is basically untouchable. They can enmesh with their vulnerable clients and the client isn't even aware of it. And, not only do they do that, they automatically are given the benefit of the doubt. I have spoken out about my own complex-PTSD. I was required to see a mental health professional as part of a court order during my divorce (ex did a ton of dirty things). One day, I was in her office and started having chest pains. She took my blood pressure and immediately called 911. As they wheeled the gurney into the Emergency Department, the lead shouted "Coming in from a psychiatrist's office!!!" I've been in the ED and/or hospital at least 100+ times during the past ten years due to the stress of my divorce and I can attest to the fact that I WAS treated differently by all the hospital staff that day. And, if people who are supposed to be professional don't even understand how their actions and words stigmatize those of us that see a mental health professional, there's little to no chance a layperson would get it. A police officer can have the trajectory of his/her career path completely stopped by seeking mental health support. It's totally cool to become an alcoholic, drug user, wife or husband or kid beater but no, no, no. You must never seek help from a professional.

    And, that leads us right back to your OP. If these kids can't get the mental health support they need BEFORE they explode...what real chance are we giving them? Why are we okay with unleashing our broken children onto society? Why are we not paying attention, really listening with the intent to help, not judge, not hurt, not blame, not dismiss, actually take the time and effort to understand what is really going on for them. I was bullied in school all the time and I was beaten at home constantly. I had hundreds of extended family members within 30-60 minutes and NONE of them ever tried to help when they witnessed it. Not one single one ever took me aside and said "I know it's tough right now, but it will be okay some day when you grow up. Just try to hang in there." Not ONE. Not only did they not do that, some of them were also abusive to me because they knew my parents wouldn't care. I honestly didn't know if I would make it to adulthood at that time in my life and I made a vow to myself that if I did make it out alive I would never turn a blind eye to anyone being mistreated. I've lost count how many strangers, neighbors, employees I've confronted for that nonsense. Nobody in my line of vision will EVER be mistreated in my presence.

    My ex kidnapped our children about five years ago. About six months prior to that, I walked to the bus stop on our daughter's first day of middle school. I took my camera so I could get a picture of her coming off the bus as a big girl. Before we made it the block back to the house, a school investigator was pulling up. At that time, I didn't know who he was or what it was about because he was yelling and I don't let people just unleash on me so I tuned out whatever he was shouting. He called the cops and three officers were at my door within minutes (they never got there that fast when I needed a paramedic though ;-). I didn't know I couldn't take a photo of my kid because she was surrounded by other kids. I didn't have a problem talking to them and I was actually glad to know that these bus drivers are trained to protect our kids this way.

    So, if there is any takeaway here, it's that we should feel hopeful about this case and while changes may be slow, they are heading in the right direction. We just have to never stop caring about fixing the problems. We have to remain mindful and diligent and consistent, and above all else, kind. Everyone has problems even if they never say it aloud and we all have the opportunity to make someone smile. It just might be that kid who can't take much more bullying and pondering stealing his parents' weapon(s) and hurting people and/or himself. We never know so we should never stop caring.
     
  20. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    A classic liberal anti-gun wet dream; punish who had no hand in pulling the trigger. Oh yes, making Oakland County so much safer...

    If only all of the other murder suspects in this Democrat suburb to a Democrat ghetto city had the massive manhunts we saw for these two. But, ya know, they're not the right color to garner that sort of attention. To your point, I have no doubt that leftists will try (and fail via appeal) to hang responsibility for every shooting on any deplorable in their sights. But of course they'll limit that scope of blame to gun owners, advocates, makers, sellers, etc. The school and its staff will be untouchable you watch, the unions that fund the DA's campaigns will see to that.
     
  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    If those guns were unsecured then yes
     
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  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No wet dream - it is how our gun laws work
     
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  23. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Try reading that same website because I KNOW it exists having read it myself
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
  24. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    The gun that killed Kate Steinle - shot and killed by an illegal immigrant in 2015, and used by those "waving the bloody shirt" of xenophobia - came from a BLM Ranger's car. A weapon that he left in a backpack, sitting in the passenger seat of his UNLOCKED vehicle.
     
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  25. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is some TOP-NOTCH parenting here...

    • Days before the shooting, McDonald said a teacher caught the suspect searching for ammunition on his phone during class. When contacted by school administrators, Jennifer Crumbley texted her son, "LOL I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught."
    I'll take the statement you like and build upon it. - "Parenting is a right and with that right comes great responsibility."

    We (parents) are all going to make mistakes, but FFS, try to prevent your obviously disturbed child from harming others... at a minimum.

    Reading the entire article, I have to say these charges seem fully warranted, not that this will cause a future deterrent or anything.

    I hear these 2 are now in custody.... I imagine the stable of usual suspects of nutjob RW lawyers are already lining up to get this case.
     
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