Prosecutors charge parents of Michigan school shooting suspect

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bowerbird, Dec 3, 2021.

  1. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Please link to research showing children can’t be taught to respect fellow humans and firearms. I’ll wait. LOL
     
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  2. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Of course. So can adults. We don’t live in a perfect world.
    Evidence? If someone is “awry”, and a knife is in their pocket and their gun is 20 miles away at home does this still hold? What is responsible for this psychological bent to “go to the gun”? Could it have anything to do with conditioning through media and entertainment?
    Absolutely. It’s socially acceptable for kids to shoot deer here. It’s not socially acceptable to shoot other kids. When you are accustomed to seeing the concrete results of shooting a living thing and dealing with the consequences, I’m convinced the likelihood of flippantly shooting fellow humans decreases.

    Here’s another example. Who crashes the most vehicles? The teenager with a 20 year old pickup they inherited from grandpa to get to their weekend job or the teen who’s parents buy them a new corvette on their 16th birthday along with an insurance policy?

    Speaking from my childhood experience, at that age it was my responsibility to know where the unsecured firearm was and make decisions on it’s proper use as a common tool in the absence of an adult. The firearm was seen as a solution to the problem of predation on my livelihood by animals. It was never considered as a solution to the kid making fun of my haircut at school. And I’m a ginger with a relatively short fuse. :)

    Correct. A jury of peers would nullify any such charge in short order. How could a jury convict someone for having a pistol in a drawer when their kid has their own hunting rifle and shotgun?

    Another analogy. Here kids are allowed to drive to school at age 14. Yes, some crash. But we don’t take cars/pickups from society or put the parents in jail when Jimmy takes the corner on a gravel road too fast on the way to school and puts his car in the ditch. We recognize life is full of risk/reward trade offs and grow up learning to be responsible. We don’t expect there to never be bad outcomes.
     
  3. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting that you quoted that part of the article. I had to reread that a couple of times to make sure that I actually read what I thought I did.

    Back in elementary school, I was friends with a classmate. She found a way to pick the lock on our teacher's desk, stole her gradebook and changed all the grades of another classmate and put it back. That classmate was a stone cold idiot so the the teacher immediately knew something wasn't right. I don't know how they found out that my friend did it but they did and she said is that I was involved. I've always had a reputation as being very honest so they immediately knew that was a lie. They only threatened to expel me to push the envelope to learn what I knew about it.

    I confronted her after school to ask why she did that and her reason was she wanted that other classmate to like her "It's not like it was real cheating. Let's think of it as 'using available resources." I was so disgusted by that that I never spoke to her again.

    In the 8th grade, I had a classmate that drank her milk or soda from a baby bottle, literally. The purpose of it was to get her lips fuller and her pucker more defined. Her mother was an escort and was teaching her daughter how to prep for that role.

    Going full circle...apply that to what we have all witnessed this past 13 months with Trump. He and his supporters can't accept that he was fired for his pathetic pandemic response. To his and their way of thinking, lying, cheating, blaming, manipulating, bullying and all of his other horrible behaviors are acceptable.

    We are required to have training, experience and testing to get a driver's license.
    We are required to attend school for at least 12 (or 13 if we include Kindergarten).
    We are required to further our education and peer mentoring to become teachers.
    We are required to further our education and training to be doctors, RNs, lawyers, accountants, pilots, therapists and other professions.
    We are required to pass certifications to be nurses aides, EMTs and medical coders.
    We are required to pass simulations to become air traffic controllers.
    We are required to pass reading and math tests to work in a post office.
    We are required to pass comprehensive medical and mental health exams to be enlisted in the military.

    But, one or two idiots can walk out of a hospital with an infant and do whatever they want with him/her with no oversight until something goes off the rails to bring their family and <whatever lead to an outsider to question their parenting> under scrutiny.

    So maybe what we need is some kind of mandatory parenting classes so people stop enabling their kids to have no character or sense of responsibility to the society in which they live. It's one thing to support your kid. It's another to to completely turn a blind eye to their bad behavior or outright coach them to a path of toxic and dysfunctional behavior.
     
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  4. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No amount of mandatory parenting classes will change that... This seems like a classic GIGO example

    Garbage In.... Garbage Out...

    Also, running from the law is not a good look, this ridiculous lawyer-speak included

    SNIP
    On Friday afternoon after officials said they were searching for the pair, their lawyers said the couple had not fled but had left town the night after the shooting “for their own safety” and were in the process of returning for arraignment.
    ENDSNIP

    Sounds like more legal graduates from the Sidney Powell School of Moronic Rhetoric...
     
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  5. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I agree to an extent. However, ponder this if you will. If we (collective) stopped saying one thing and doing another, we could get this under control or least better control than the current status quo.

    For instance, if we stopped rewarding liars and cheaters, people would have to have integrity, morals and values. Since we don't honor that, it makes perfect sense there are so many halfwits leading the path to our destruction.

    I can understand why they left. The Pences have been flopping with relatives and in hotels since Trump put a price on his head.

    However, I absolutely agree running wasn't a good idea simply because they knew they were wanted for questioning. I don't see why they couldn't go to the police, finish that and then leave town.

    This will be a landmark case. I eagerly await the verdict and remain hopeful the court will lean toward culpability and responsibility.
     
  6. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here's some serious irony here

    1. Killer Mommy once wrote some "open letter" praising T****'s stance on guns.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/mother-accused-michigan-school-shooting-204600258.html

    2. T**** once actually said (outloud) - "take the firearms first, and then go to court,", during meetings about the Parkland shooting and referring to dangerous people with firearms

    https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second

    That's a square Killer Mommy is going to be unlikely to circle... although, that was one VERY RARE occurrence that I was in agreement with the Grifter-In-Chief...
     
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  7. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    That's not irony. She held the stance she still holds.

    He probably could have won re-election if he followed through on this instead of trying to grift his supporters based on a lie about widespread election fraud when he knows he was fired for being a lame duck throughout COVID rapid journey the US.

    However, that is what is expected of him. He always shoots off his mouth and doesn't do anything productive.
     
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  8. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    While you are welcome to your opinion, when you share it on a discussion forum, we are free to discuss it. And I find it sad that a school shooting in our country is no longer newsworthy. Same old, same old.
     
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  9. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The irony is the 2 things together.. she supported the "gun stance" of a man who would have probably taken her child's gun away if given the opportunity...
     
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  10. Winter Sun

    Winter Sun Newly Registered

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    My dad always had a gun in the house. As a kid I didn’t know where the guns were. I had no access to my father’s gun collection. I would absolutely never consider pulling out my dad’s guns for fun or any reason. I understood that the only time I was allowed to inspect those guns, or have anything to do with those guns, it was when my parents were home and in the room because my parent’s were responsible for those guns. What the hell is wrong with gun owners today? They leave their guns out for their kids to handle without parental supervision? The parents should be charged.
     
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  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And what did your last slave die of? I did not bother to link because it was a demand from a poster to validate HIS claim

    It is not my claim and it has nothing to do with the OP. YOU want to prove this point then please do so but don’t bother demanding I do YOUR homework for you
     
  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I love how the American right have conniptions over the Australian gun reform act but fail to realise that the architect of that act was John Howard one of the most conservative prime ministers ever to run the country
     
  13. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha. OK, now I understand your earlier post ;-).
     
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  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    One of the most confronting anti gun adverts was done by a couple of Aussies who realised that the kids in your schools actually have to do “active shooter drills”



    when did that become normal?
     
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Think a body like the AAP might, just might know what they are talking about?

    https://publications.aap.org/pediat...cting-the-Pediatric?autologincheck=redirected

    BTW - this is the same site I linked to before that discusses the role of gun safety training - the one that seemingly no one read
     
  16. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I expect much of the American right thinks that The Sound of Music took place in Australia....(they only watch for the Nazi scenes - Rolf is a big fan favorite... he was going to become a faux medic after the war)
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
  17. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  18. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. You responded directly to ME with YOUR claim about research. I did not even quote anyone in my initial post in this thread YOU responded to. Back up your claim…or don’t. But don’t say YOUR claim is SOMEONE ELSES claim. LOL
     
  19. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    They might, but you would have to show evidence they do. I wouldn’t take your or their word for it. I’m not big on appeal to authority argument you are keen on.
    What specifically in your pull quote is supposed to address my comments to the other poster? Your pull quote says media plays a role, as I brought up. Your pull quote mentions several results of poor parenting which is what I blame for these shootings. Do you have any specific argument or just appeal to authority?

    This post of yours I’m responding to is the only place in this thread your link appears. Why are we expected to scour PF for your content not in this thread? Strange argument.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
  20. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    what exactly did they do that was irresponsible?
     
  21. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I’m glad you had responsible parents. This kid didn’t.

    So are you saying you were taught not to handle your dad’s firearm and never would have considered doing so? If you wouldn’t have considered doing so, my point is shown to be true. Children can be taught to be responsible by responsible parents.

    Should my parents have been charged for making it my responsibility to use a firearm for practical purposes unsupervised at age 15?
     
  22. Chuck711

    Chuck711 Well-Known Member

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    This whole tragedy should have been avoided

    In most schools the correct procedure would have been for the school to call security

    Without warning take the kid and backpack out of the classroom while another checks his Locker

    Dump the Backpack and check for weapons

    The Parents were wrong however the school is to blame also
     
  23. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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  24. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    What did they do that was irresponsible?
     
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  25. Winter Sun

    Winter Sun Newly Registered

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    I had no interest in my dad‘s guns because I didn’t consider them toys. They were mostly for self defense. My parents weren’t teaching me to defend myself with a gun as a preteen or anything. That’s crazy.

    If I were around other kids who thought differently, then something else could’ve happened. If their parents let them handle guns irresponsibly and openly, then I would probably go home and say my friends parents let him do this and that. I know how that conversation would have ended with my parents, but kids are often influenced by other kids… well, we aren’t his parents. That’s the only way I could imagine myself as a kid trying to get to my dad’s guns, because my friends thought it was ok, cool, and fun.

    in what situation were you as a 15-year-old responsible for a gun unsupervised?
     
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