Protect vaccine manufacturers... or make better vaccines?

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "serious" I suppose. It's true that in the developed world, 99.9% of those who contract measles survive it, but if there are complications then the mortality rate rises significantly. Despite vaccination, over 100,000 die from it annually and as well as death, measles can have life-changing complications. Same with mumps, having had a particularly bad bout as a child I can state from personal experience that both it and chickenpox (which was more uncomfortable) are very unpleasant and like measles, there are complications.

 

So you are a totalitarian, you want to live under a dictatorship of some sort. Not a surprise you feel that way.

And the science does not support the current USA vaccination program. Obviously you don't read the posts, and clearly you don't know the subject. Not a surprise that a totalitarian ignores facts that contradict his totalitarian world view.

 

This is about the USA vaccination program, or at most the programs in western industrialized nations. Not the third world.

As I have stated multiple times in posts, standard of living is a factor in health. Since most vaccinations do not provide life long immunity, and vaccine induced immunity for some illnesses is gone after as little as 4 years, why aren't there massive outbreaks of all kinds of illnesses in the USA and industrialized western world? Because good sanitation, clean water, shelter, plentiful and nutritious food, health care, produce a clean environment and healthy people with robust mature immune systems.

Some vaccinations are good to have (such as pertussis), some should not be required for a child (such as HepB), some should be not required at all (such as MMR).

Mumps, measles, chicken pox were routine childhood illnesses in the USA until late in the 20th century. Parents even had parties to expose their children to these illnesses because as a child the illness was trivial, the huge majority of times the child gets sick and misses a week of school and that was the extent of the illness. When there were complications from chicken pox, it was most often scarring from the pox.

 

You're painting with a broad brush. Four years in the life of a newborn is highly significant. And, we've learned a lot since the time of purposefully making our children sick.

The CDC states that 1 out of 4 who get measles will be hospitalized. It's highly contagious. Some number will get pneumonia or will suffer from brain swelling that can lead to brain damage.

Yet, you blow off measles as inconsequential.

What's your agenda here?

 

Thats not the true history of measles.
https://www.cdc.gov/measles/hcp/index.html

"In the decade before the live measles vaccine was licensed in 1963, an average of 549,000 measles cases and 495 measles deaths were reported annually in the United States. However, it is likely that, on average, 3 to 4 million people were infected with measles annually; most cases were not reported. Of the reported cases, approximately 48,000 people were hospitalized from measles and 1,000 people developed chronic disability from acute encephalitis caused by measles annually."​

So before vaccinations, 3 to 4 million people in the USA got measles, about 1.4% were hospitalized, 0.028% had chronic disability.

It might be that today 1 in 4 who get measles seek medical care, probably because they panic over all the hype. But just like in pre-vacc days, people who get measles probably don't even report it.

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As I thought I made clear, I oppose the mandatory and overreaching vaccination program in the USA. Too many vaccinations in the first 18 months, too many vaccinations given at the same time, too many unnecessary vaccinations. The science does not support this program. In fact, the science is clear that the program is flawed, that children should not receive more than 4 vaccinations (not pokes, but vaccinations) at one time, that some vaccinations are not necessary for children. Its also open to debate whether so many vaccinations in the first 18 months is harmful. Its also clear that some vaccinations are not even necessary at all.

You have not justified the vaccination program. Why are you so adamant that people be forced to obey the govt?

 

The simple justification for the vaccination program is that it works. It is a prophylactic treatment that pre-empts millions of people become ill and exposing them to potential debilitation or death. It saves billions of dollars and millions of people every year.

I agree you have the right to expose yourself to whatever infectious disease you like. What you don't have the right to do is emulate typhoid mary.

 

I'm talking about today, and quoting the CDC.

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/parents-top4.html

It's pretty hard to argue your sweeping statements about vaccines, as not all vaccines are required and specific vaccines have specific issues.

It really doesn't make sense to assault a whole category of medications like you do.

 

And it's not just about survival, anyway. Even those who survive measles can endure permanent damage, and measles can become epidemic. When it does, it causes great economic harm, on top of the physical harm it causes.

 

Inappropriate, stupid response. Argument for a single rule or law is not argument for totalitarianism.

 

Gross exaggeration, and a demonstration of a complete lack of knowledge of the subject.

 

I posted from the experience of the time before the measles vaccination because that would be the worst possible scenario. At that time, 3-4 million people got measles annually, the hospitalization rate was tiny, the severe reaction rate was trivial. Measles was a trivial issue.

Clearly you do not read the posts.

I have been very clear. I do not assault an entire category of medications. I do not oppose all vaccinations. I have repeatedly written that some vaccines are required in children - tetanus and pertussis for example (the 4th time I have made that statement).

My issue is with the program of mandatory vaccination of children. Too many vaccinations early in life (19+ in the first 18 months are required in most states), some are not required at that age (HepB, 4th time I've mentioned that example), some are not required at all (measles). Too many vaccinations given at one time (6+ at times).

The science supports my position. All you have done is argue that measles is not trivial, but your evidence is weak. Most of your claims have been refuted (CDC does recommend people get Zostavax despite Zostavax severe side effects and very low effectiveness, Japan does not require vaccinations yet has the lowest infant mortality in the world, measles was not a serious disease before the vaccination became available).

You ignore most of my arguments - such as the fact that giving more than 4 vaccinations at one time leads to a great increase in adverse reaction. You probably ignore them because they are fact and do not support your position of blindly following the current program.

Clearly you are not up to the task.

 

You argue for blindly following a govt mandate, a mandate which is flawed but you cannot comprehend that a govt mandate could be flawed.

 

Yep a gross exaggeration except for the facts. Reality can be annoying, wot?

 

Pot meet someone who runs rings around you

Lol!

 

Have you ever seen a child with post measles encephalitis?

I have

One of the saddest things I have ever seen. Young child. Floppy and nomreponse to anything

https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/108/3/177/1606747

How about Tetanus? Seen about six cases.

Then there is whooping cough (pertussis) - seen a couple of cases of that

http://conditions.health.qld.gov.au/HealthCondition/condition/14/33/150/Whooping-Cough-Pertussis

Varicella encephalitis

Admittedly the patient was immune compromised but still.....

https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/chickenpox

And then there is the meningococcal septicaemia patients I have nursed


Wouldn't you try to prevent this if you could?

 

You wish polio had been wiped out

There has just been an outbreak in Papua New Guinea

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-...-png-18-years-after-polio-free-status/9913684

 

I quoted professional analysis by the CDC, which is the organization that does such analysis.

It's on YOU if it doesn't conform to your own ideas.

You have shown zero evidence of this.

Clearly, the CDC disagrees with you.

No, the CDC is a serious organization of science.

If you're going to oppose the CDC, you need more than you've brought.

 

Obviously you don't read the posts. I've included facts and links to the CDC. I think you don't have a clue what the conversation is about, you just see someone critiquing the vaccination program (and I am not against vaccinations at all - but you wont know that since you did not read the posts) and you spout out some BS.

 

Normally I would ignore that post, except I am curious - what was it in that post that you found so convincing? It was a factless post, almost completely lacking in content.

 

Another person who does not read the posts.

This will the 5th time I have stated that I support pertussis and tetanus vaccination. I am not against all vaccinations.

I am critical of the vaccination program in the USA. There are too many vaccinations (19+) in the first 18 months. There are too many vaccinations given in one visit (often more than 6 vaccinations in one visit). There are vaccinations (such as HepB) that do not need to be given to young children, they can be delayed until years later. There are some vaccinations which are not necessary.

Before spending time creating a long post, get up to speed on the conversation..

 

Obviously I did, hence my comment. are you familiar with the concept of cherry picking? are you aware of the logical fallacies and absolute unsubstantiated opinions/judgements you have expressed in those posts?


And the evidence is concrete - vaccines deliver benefits to several orders of magnitude more people than the tiny % with adverse reactions.
And those with adverse reactions are equally as tiny a % of those who die or become debilitated by the relevant diseases.

 

This is about the USA.

Polio is not seen in the USA since 1979.
https://www.cdc.gov/polio/us/

"Polio has been eliminated from the United States thanks to widespread polio vaccination in this country. This means that there is no year-round transmission of poliovirus in the United States. Since 1979, no cases of polio have originated in the United States. However, the virus has been brought into the country by travelers with polio. The last time this happened was in 1993."​

Read about the Global Polio Eradication Initiative. http://polioeradication.org/ Polio has been eradicated from almost every nation, as of 2 October 2018 it is wild in only Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Nigeria.

 

Stupid post. Almost all my sources are the CDC. Don't you look at the links I provide? Of course you dont.

 

I'm citing their current position.

And, you are hunting for history.

 

Wrong. You do not read the posts or you would know about the Zostovax vaccine which I discussed at length. Zostovax not only can cause shingles, but also has a serious side effect of blindness.

For over 8 years, the CDC strongly recommended people over 60 years old get Zostovax. The CDC still recommends Zostovax.

I'll summarize it for you:
Whats the chance of getting shingles from Zostavax? 0.3%.
Whats the chance of keratitis from Zostovax? 0.57%
Whats the chance of getting shingles if you are not vaccinated? 3.3%
Whats the chance of getting shingles if you are vaccinated? 1.6%

Zostovax reduces your chance of getting shingles 1.7%, but has a 0.57% of severe eye damage including blindness.

This vaccine did not deliver "benefits to several orders of magnitude more people than the tiny % with adverse reactions".

Read the posts before making stupid statements.