Question #258 For Libertarians (and similarly inclined)

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by Pardy, May 15, 2015.

  1. Pardy

    Pardy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There's a society of 100 people on a small island with limited resources. There are no formal laws. Traditionally, younger people took care of the older people but they have gotten lazy and now they just want the elderly to fend for themselves. A few more compassionate islanders get together to help gather more food to offer it to the elderly but they barely have the energy to feed themselves, and their charitable donations aren't enough to keep the elderly alive.

    What should the charitable group do?

    1) Go to the leaders and ask that they force everyone to pitch in to help the elderly
    2) Give up trying to help the elderly and focus on their own lives and allow the elderly to die
    3) Take over the tribe and impose new laws, including a law that everyone must help each other get enough food
    4) Promote a law that reserves 10% of all gathered food to be given only to those in need.
    5) Other (explain)
     
  2. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Come on, you can do better than that. That is just too transparent.
     
  3. Pardy

    Pardy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's not a trap. I am wondering how a libertarian would fix this problem -- if they even consider it a problem.
     
  4. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    5) Encourage exploration and immigration. With more people, there will be more charity.
     
  5. Pardy

    Pardy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why shouldn't the able-bodied people already on the island help out? Charity begins at home.
     
  6. Cautiously Conservative

    Cautiously Conservative New Member Past Donor

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    Number 5. They should set up a private charitable fund and help the elderly to the extent that they can. No one is born beholden to another on this earth.

    The eskimos used to put their elderly on an ice slab and wave bye-bye. In a case like an island with limited resources, everyone should just do as much as they can - or as much as they would like to.
     
  7. Pardy

    Pardy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But the young people don't want to contribute. Should only the nice people be forced to support the elderly?

    Should parents be allowed to abandon their children?
     
  8. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    With that small of a population, it would be hard, especially as the number of older people grows. The better choice is to expand.
     
  9. Cautiously Conservative

    Cautiously Conservative New Member Past Donor

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    No one should be forced.

    Parents naturally want to raise their children. If they don't - the children are probably better off with others who want them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just because they "should" does not mean they should be "forced" to do so.
     
  10. PredFan

    PredFan New Member

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    5. Other,

    Do their best to continue to help the elderly. Appeal to people, or whatever you can do but you don't force anyone to do anything they don't want to.
     
  11. Pardy

    Pardy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It seems that the selfish people are being rewarded for not helping the elderly, and the generous people are being punished for carrying the weight of their social responsibility.

    Another option, which was already suggested, is to just let the old people die. I guess old people are just dead weight in a libertarian society.
     
  12. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    I draw a distinction between natural resources and the products of human labor.
    If the people on the island are dying because they are being denied the right to use the naturally occurring resources on the island, then that is terribly wrong. If they are dying because they are unable to adequately fend for themselves and no one else is willing to help them, that's a different matter.
     
  13. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Your example is a pathetic straw man. If the younger people no longer care about or value the older people, then their state of morality has decreased to the point where they would not obey your new laws either.

    If the situation becomes desperate, should the old people be allowed to die? Yes. A person who has lost the ability to contribute to their society and becomes a burden is a luxury. As in nature, the strong need to survive for the continuation of the species. There is no right to life once you can no longer support yourself. If society decides to subsidize you then that is fine, if they decide not to subsidize you, you have no claim on their production. You have had your time. At the point you cannot provide for yourself, you have lost your dignity as a human being and should not oppose death. It is inevitable for all of us.
     
  14. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    At some point, the young and productive people on the island would be overwhelmed by having to provide for the elderly unless the young population grew at the same rate as the older population. That's not even close to happening on our island.
     
  15. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    5. Division of labor. The young gather food, firewood, etc., and the elderly perform tasks such as cooking, cleaning fish, etc. That way, there is an equitable trade, and no one is dead weight in a situation where dead weight can kill everyone, old and young alike.
     

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