Question for folks who want to ban civilian use of semi-auto firearms:

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by modernpaladin, Feb 17, 2020.

  1. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    there will be no mutiny aboard this ship

    America is a first world, civilised, democracy, it is not a third world nation where civilians can deputize themselves willy nilly for unlawful forces.

    the Commander in Chief of lawful government forces banned bump stocks for civilians, if He bans semi-auto fire arms, civilians must comply and rely on the government for protection.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
  2. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your reply.

    It surmises how you see 2A.
    I think most everyone has their own opinion of what 2A means.
    As you said, some will think citizens need what the military has, since it states in 2A about a well regulated militia. Also, some will claim 2A is also for citizens to protect themselves against a gov't militia, foreign or domestic. I think.

    Then there are those who would like to rid the 2A altogether.

    And most people fall in between those extremes.
    So what it boils down to is the interpretation one has of 2A. More importantly what the USSC has ruled in past and likely in future.
    I don't see the USSC every banning all weapons unless there is some amendment to 2A.

    So these 2A arguments is mostly personal opinions, IMO.
    And I don't see a ban on most semi auto firearms. If any.
     
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  3. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    I can't answer anything about shooting feral pigs.
    I've never seen one. I saw your video. They used bolt action rifles. How many rounds in those magazines?

    I assume they used a bolt action rifle because they are the most accurate rifle.
     
  4. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Having hunted white tail deer for a few decades, I have observed most everytime there is a shot very near them, if they have not dropped over from being shot, they run away.
    They don't stand their until a round actually hits them.

    Maybe your feral pigs are different, I don't know. I've never actually seen one in person.
     
  5. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Snipers picking off hogs at long range need a rifle with a scope. The bolt action adds very little to accuracy unless your 800 meters + away.
    Would you be looking through your scope during a feral hog attack?
    Note that while the rifles eventually work the scopes are useless for these hunters when they encounter 1 hog.

     
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  6. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    So no need for 20 round mags?
     
  7. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Best choice: Shotgun with buckshot if you think you may encounter feral hogs at close range.
    M-14 with a 20 round magazine and steel sights would also work and would be more versatile if you are a good shot.
     
  8. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Untrue, once the team breaks loose they begin running and trying to shoot them while pursuing them in a moving swamp buggy often results in a number of near miss's or a wounding shot, which must be followed up with a humane kill shot.

    In the end this requires a higher capacity magazine, some guys I cull hogs with use 30 round mags, I prefer 20 round mags, they are in my opinion less prone to a feed problems and much easier to load.

    The idea is to cull as many as possible which brings in a much better payment from the farmer who hires us, many of the older hogs are left in place to be consumed by vultures, other wildlife and insects, younger hogs are commonly picked up butchered and used as food, and because of the sheer numbers culled, much of which is donated to local food banks.

    In the end it is a win, win, the farmer gets rid of some very destructive animals, we make a little money, and people who cannot afford to buy meat get supplied, for no charge, with some very good and nutritious meat.
     
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  9. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I use an AR-15 with hollow points and have found it to work very well, low cost ammo and easy on my shoulder.
     
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  10. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    A very effective weapon to deal with all kinds of threats, and ordinary working stiffs can afford to own and use it. No wonder they want to ban them.
     
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  11. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Or else what? Is he going to send folks to come and take them from the people? If so, who?

    If you hadn't noticed just recently in Virginia when the State Government was planning to pass legislation on firearms they had a protesting force of armed civilians standing outside of the capital building numbering over 25,000. Many of whom were the Law Enforcement officers and Sheriffs of Virginia and neighboring areas.

    Just take a look at some of the States who have recently passed "Red Flag" laws and look at the compliance rate by the counties within them. States such as Florida, Colorado, Illinois, etc where over half of the counties Sheriffs have just flat out said no we aren't enforcing that. And this is simply a law that says nothing about actually banning anything outright. They won't even enforce that, imagine trying to pass a law actually banning something in these places...

    There is always this huge misconception that the government has a band of secret die hard loyal troops that it can deploy against people who won't comply with federal or state laws. Evidence proves quite the contrary. If your Sheriffs, Law Enforcement, and Nation Guards aren't willing to go confiscate weapons from folks or even enforce laws against what weapons folks can have then who exactly is going to do it?

    And if these folks exist then where were they in January when 25,000 armed protesters sat outside of the Capital building in Richmond?
     
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  12. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    There are extremists in any subject, the gun debate is no different. Folks who believe that Joe Citizen with a billion dollars should be able to park an Ohio Class Nuclear Submarine next to their yacht "because the military has it and the 2A says I can" are just as ridiculous and those who claim that Joe Citizen shouldn't be allowed to own anything but flintlock muskets "because that's what they had when the 2A was written", in my opinion.

    As with anything somewhere between the extremist views there is room for a rational discussion. In my opinion the current stance of the 2nd Amendment is perfectly acceptable. It isn't designed for citizens to be able to put up a legitimate toe to toe fight with the US military if necessary. That may have been (and was) possible during the era when it was written but as time and technology advanced the gap between civilian and military weaponry widened to the point where such statements are flat out ridiculous in the modern era. I mean let's get real here, I'm in the military, I operate the single deadliest weapon in the US military arsenal (by raw engagement numbers over the past 2 decades). I alone (well with a co-pilot) would wipe out Joe Citizen's entire "militia" in a matter of minutes...and I'm just one guy, we have fleets of these death machines operated by people like me. The people wouldn't stand a chance in hell against the US military if the military actually agreed to come after them.

    The point is deterrence more than anything nowadays. In such a radical hypothetical and unlikely scenario even if the government could muster up the US Army to attack it's people it comes down to a question of whether or not it's worth it to do that. As America has seen time and time again, and as I've personally experienced time and time again, insurgencies are a royal pain in the ass to deal with even for the most powerful military force in the history of planet Earth. We're still dealing with poor dirt farmers with AK-47s in Afghanistan after 2 decades for example. A full blown insurrection in the United States would be worse than any insurgency ever seen in history due to how heavily armed the population is and just how vast this country is. All of these things contribute to why the 2A is important. No citizens don't have M1 tanks or B-1 bombers but they have tens of millions of AR-15s and hundreds of millions of handguns. That coupled with the land size of the US makes for a nearly impossible "occupation" strategy. And "occupy" militarily is what would be required in order to subdue an uprising like that.

    That's just one reason why the 2A is important. Do I personally think that the US government wants to subdue it's people but simply can't because we are so heavily armed? No, I have no visions of a Hong Kong style scenario being fantasized about by even our most radical of elected officials. But I do take comfort in knowing that a Hong Kong style situation would pretty much never happen here even in some hypothetical fantasy land because in America our citizens don't just have molotov cocktails and flaming arrows to throw, we have 5.56 NATO.

    Just to be clear so I don't seem like a lunatic or anything. No I don't think that the US government wan'ts to instill it's iron will on the people even if we weren't armed. Hell I am the "government". I just take comfort in knowing that they would have one hell of a time of it if they ever went crazy somewhere down the road and wanted to try.
     
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  13. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with that.
     
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  14. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or as a former Chinese leader once stated, "it's impossible to invade a country where their is a gun behind every blade of grass" and the same applies to internal to the U.S., so called leaders, who might want to invade this country with their socialist agenda's.

    Which is why they and their useful idiot minions are pushing for the disarmament of the law abiding people in the U.S., a conversion to socialism is not possible until the law abiding is totally disarmed within the U.S..
     
  15. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    i didn't know that, but Israel's Iron Dome has a 90 percent success rate

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
  16. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    So some special needs for high round magazines.
    But most of the general public really has no need.
     
  17. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Then precisely how much ammunition does any given member of the general public truly need access to at any given time, in any specific situation? Explain such. Prove conclusively, beyond reasonable doubt, that the general public truly does not have a legitimate need of access to magazines capable of holding more than ten rounds of ammunition at any given time.
     
  18. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Where did I say to limit ammo?
    I only said, most Americans have no need for 20 round mags.

    Where would the ever have a need to fire off 20 rounds in about 1 minute? Maybe some mass shooting? A shooting range?
     
  19. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    If the objection is not being made on the amount of ammunition a private individual may choose to carry on their person, then there is no legitimate reason to object to the amount of ammunition that is carried in a particular magazine.

    In any situation where such would be necessitated. Just as law enforcement officers have need for magazines holding such a capacity.

    Those who find themselves present when a mass shooting is taking place would most certainly have a legitimate need for the ability to return whatever volume of fire is necessary to preserve their own lives. The only other alternative is being left unarmed and helpless, unable to do anything but run and hide, and hope that someone will come to rescue them before they are murdered.
     
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  20. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Sure, multiple people firing rounds as fast as they can all around is sooo safe.
     
  21. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    As opposed to what, precisely? The person who made the decision to initiate the mass shooting being the sole individual in possession of a firearm, free to murder at their leisure because they will face no opposition? Just as was demonstrated in the Pulse nightclub shooting, and countless other mass shootings?
     
  22. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Fix the broken mental health issues in the country.
     
  23. M.A. Survivalist

    M.A. Survivalist Newly Registered

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    So what do you operate, nuclear bombs? From what I know nuclear bombs cannot be operated by just one person. And besides the government would never use nuclear bombs against American citizens as they would be nuking their own soil.
     
  24. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    No nuclear/atomic weapons have deployed by the US against enemy combatants since 1945.
     
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  25. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Attempt at off topic deflection duly noted and ignored. The discussion started on the part of yourself was an objection to the amount of ammunition contained within a specific magazine, rather than the amount of ammunition an individual chose to carry with them at any given period. Mental health has no relevance to such and will not be discussed. It was yourself who made the comment about how only a mass shooter would have need of a magazine capable of holding more than ten rounds of ammunition, thus suggesting no private individual could possibly use such in a legitimate application. As well as suggesting the belief that a private individual is compelled to discharge all of their ammunition at once in a single application, and that they cannot possibly discharge anything less than the full amount of the magazine.

    Which, once again warrants the previous question. When operating a motor vehicle, or a piece of electronic equipment such as a stereo, is the maximum speed and volume utilized by default, in all circumstances even when such is not warranted, simply because the maximum output is physically available and can be used?
     

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