Question for libertarians & conservatives

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Sep 23, 2021.

  1. cabse5

    cabse5 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  2. cabse5

    cabse5 Well-Known Member

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    No one has studied the consequences of taking the experimental vaccines so, yeah, they're experimental. The experimental vaccines have just been fast tracked for usage by the FDA (which I wouldn't be surprised if I learned that the FDA decisions to approve the experimental vaccines were partially politically motivated).
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  3. cabse5

    cabse5 Well-Known Member

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    My body my choice applies equally to abortion as to taking the vaccine so it's comparing apples to apples.:roll:
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  4. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is a rock living? Would you call rocks inactive?
    Virus can't do things. Virus can be used by living things.
    Like you use salt. Salt is not alive.
     
  5. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Correct and of course Trump is the reason science got moving faster this time. But for Trump, we would not have any vaccines right now. The process generally takes many years to get approvals.

    Typical Timeline. A typical vaccine development timeline takes 5 to 10 years, and sometimes longer, to assess whether the vaccine is safe and efficacious in clinical trials, complete the regulatory approval processes, and manufacture sufficient quantity of vaccine doses for widespread distribution.

    Vaccine Research & Development - Johns Hopkins ...
    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu › vaccines › timeline
     
  6. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It makes perfect sense to mistrust vaccines given the normal time to approve any of them is a minimum of 5 years.
    The question for all of us is so long as experts allege it is safe, and if not used but we come down with the serious version of the virus, and die, did our caution help or hurt us?
     
  7. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The vaccines are not alive. I would think by now if they are deadly, we would have a lot of evidence of that.
     
  8. cabse5

    cabse5 Well-Known Member

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    We know vaccines are generally effective in stopping causalities from Covid infection but the side effects of the vaccines haven't been researched...just noted.
     
  9. cabse5

    cabse5 Well-Known Member

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    The Covid virus is like a seed...The seed is neither alive nor dead when sowed into the ground...The seed is dormant. The 'seed' has to interact with the host - take nutrients from the host in order for the seed to grow into a stalk of corn, for example...If the seed can't interact with a host in a determinant period of time, the seed dies.

    EDIT: I don't know why you're climbing onto the vaccines are alive (or not) tangent. Vaccines haven't contained live contagions (to build up antibodies to said contagions) for a very long time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  10. cabse5

    cabse5 Well-Known Member

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    On a sidenote, I'd think that realizing that vaccines are great in slowing down the rate of devastating Covid infections relative to certain types of quarantines or mask wearing, for examples, would logically tend to lead one to the conclusion that vaccines are far greater in slowing down devastating Covid infections than either mask wearing or certain types of quarantines. Note: number of cases aren't relevant, IMO.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  11. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As a vaccinated person, one thing bugs me about wearing masks. I asked my consultant at the hospital why wear masks if the idea of vaccines is prevention?
     
  12. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is the first I heard of that. Gives me more to think over.

    If I eat grapes or Watermelons, I do not sprout either of them. Same with Tomatoes.
     
  13. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay report from me.
    No side effects at all and it has been 5 months ago I was vaccinated.
     
  14. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My logic is that any privately owned medical services should prioritize their treatment however they want. Im perfectly fine with some hospitals and clinics firing their staff that wont get vaccinated and refusing treatment to the same, provided that other hospitals and clinics are not prevented from hiring those staff and treating those patients. I dont think segregating society like that is good in the long run, but if thats what people choose to do, then so be it.

    Publicly funded medical providers should not be allowed to discriminate like that. But they are going to, so at least the private sector should be allowed to pick up their slack.
     
  15. cabse5

    cabse5 Well-Known Member

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    Some scientific dolts are still unnecessarily preoccupied with the number of Covid cases.

    Having effective vaccines and effective quarantines should eliminate the worry about the number of cases. Fallaciously worrying about the number of Covid cases is why, for example, the state of NY demands vaccination cards for patrons of restaurants...Also to mention it's unconstitutional to demand vaccination cards to eat in a NY restaurant...It's certainly not scientific to demand vaccination cards to eat in NY restaurants.:roll:
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  16. cabse5

    cabse5 Well-Known Member

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    Normally the watermelon or grape seed gets digested and is destroyed.:roll:
     
  17. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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  18. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why nitpick over insignificant differences? The point is the vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths are in the unvaxxed group, right?
     
  19. cabse5

    cabse5 Well-Known Member

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    Should I 'nitpick' by posting the Biden Administration is allowing unvaccinated illegals and refugees into the US by the millions?
     
  20. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The majority of hospitalizations appears to be in the unvaxxed and the vaxxed for less than two weeks groups, assuming you're getting your figures from the CDC, which counts vaxxed < 2wks as 'unvaxxed'.
     
  21. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Exact numbers sure were important in 2020 when those on the left were blaming Trump for every single death from covid. Now its "nitpick"ing.

    Numbers are important. Let's put it this way....What would you trust more....An airplane with a 89% safety rating? Or an airplane with a 99.5% safety rating?

    Additionally it is important to know just how many hospitalizations are of vaccinated people as that is also an indicator of how well the vaccine is working. And there is a huge difference between 99.5% vs 89%. Its not insignificant. The vaccine is supposed to reduce the seriousness of getting covid. If its not doing the job to the point that is claimed that its supposed to be doing then we need to know so that we can work towards a better vaccine. As it stands we don't really know that number. Particularly since the CDC is incorporating those that are partially vaxxed with those that are unvaxxed. Because that too is important to know as we can use that to extrapolate the difference between the unvaxxed and the fully vaxxed, which will also help in determining the just how helpful the vaccine really is.
     
  22. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    How many hundreds of millions of gotten the shots?

    That hardly equals 'no one has studied'.
     
  23. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Private insurance is simply a private way to share health care cost. The only in put the federal government should have is making sure they don't pull the rug out from under you.
     
  24. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    I would call your rocks a strawman argument.

    For lay people, it's kinda nitpicking to correct someone every time they say 'live or dead virus', when it's clear they mean active or inactive.

    There is such a thing as inactive and active viruses, the inactive kind are injected in vaccines. The active kind would cause the disease. now, maybe 'inactive' means 'part of' the virus, such that it won't cause the disease, but it's rendered to a state where it won't cause harm. That's the point.

    It's common lay language to refer to the inactive virus as a 'dead virus'. Does ir really matter, for lay conversation's sake, if it is really a live organism or not? But, thanks all for point it out.

    Right?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  25. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's kinda like a Triage, what they are doing in 'crisis standard of care' , as I understand it.
     

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