Question for libertarians & conservatives

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Patricio Da Silva, Sep 23, 2021.

  1. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    You either want to live in a civilization where everyone has access to affordable care, or you don't.

    Democrats do.

    Republicans don't.

    that is the difference between us.
     
  2. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Society can only support so many Trumps.
     
  3. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    You obviously haven't been reading the news much. Libs not ony want free medical for illegal aliens, they want $450,000 payments to folks that illegally entered the USA!
     
  4. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    I want to live in a society where everyone has the right to EARN their own medical care... not mooch off of ME to get it. Lazy bums have the right to be lazy and drop off the roadside.
     
  5. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. They lost their wonderful incomes... all EARNED... EARNED... under Obamacare.
     
  6. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Not "all citizens" contribute. Some are bums. You want "all citizens" to get free stuff.I would suggest you GET A JOB and when half your income disappears to pay for bums... then you will understand.
     
  7. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    No, they didn't lose their skills. They lost their MOTIVATION to work for pennies...so they sought alternatives.
     
  8. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    No... they just lost their stable income.
     
  9. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

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    Well let's be really honest here. Anyone illegal can walk into a hospital and will not be refused treatment.
     
  10. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Except it doesn't. Policy Basics: Where Do Our Federal Tax Dollars Go? | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (cbpp.org)

    23% social security: Not bums, retired people who worked.
    16% defense spending: Bombs, not bums.
    25% medicare/medicaid/chip/etc: Mostly old people who worked under medicare, some disabled. Medicaid grants could qualify as "bums," at 7%. CHIP - kids
    8% safety net programs: Some bums, most not.
    28% other and interest, unrelated to bums.

    So no, not primarily related to bums, or even a quarter related. And if the money is used in such a way to help them get back to being as productive as possible, that would be ideal, and better than letting them starve or be desperate and turn to thieving.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  11. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Social security isn't a freebie from the government> I can show you almost fifty years of pay stubs from the ge of 18 to 65 which show I paid FOR MEDICARE... that's FIFTY YEARS of PAYING for Medicarebefore I ever took a dime out of it... get it?

    Defense spending is about keeping you free to bad mouth America. People isking and giving their lives so you can say they aren't helping you at all.

    The rest of what you say is so vague as to be meaningless. (28% other and interest, unrelated to bums.
     
  12. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    If morality is an important part of the equation for you, then the additional reason to want that access is just as important as wanting everyone 'cared for'. Arguably it's more important, because it impacts future budgets - which in turn impacts our ability to care. That additional reason is that when you remove healthcare as a reason-for-financial-failure (and for poor health due to untreated lifestyle diseases), you are able to distinguish between need and greed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  13. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but they will be 'patched up' only - and only then if it's life-threatening. There is no ongoing or after care.

    If they present to Emergency with a cold or a sore knee, they will be sent on their way with advice to seek treatment from a general practitioner.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  14. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    I want to see the future filed with happiness and comfort. But we can never get there by lazy bums ripping off hard wording achievers.
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure that on a failing planet of eight billion souls, our highest priority should be First World standard 'happiness and comfort'. That's why we are where we are now .. because too many of us won't accept anything less. It's the pursuit of those things that drives lazy bums to do what they do, after all.

    Perhaps a better goal would be that every individual earns their keep, and is fed and housed as a result.
     
  16. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Earning their keep? Fed? We are learning now that doesn't work.
     
  17. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    It works at the ground level. Make it your life work to adhere to the principle, and give slack and quarter to any who share it.

    The more limited your resources, the more important it is to ensure you never waste any on the lazy bum.
     
  18. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Newly Registered

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    Not if the government takes all my money to overpay lame butts who do nothing in a public health system and have a profound ignorance of civics, economics, and medicine.
     
  19. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    I didn't call it a freebie from the government. That was my point.

    I was responding to you talking about giving half your paycheck to the government to pay for bums. That's not where the vast majority of the money to the government goes, and even when it is charitable, it's usually meant as a bridge, except in cases of permanent disability.
     
  20. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    MEANT being the operative word.
     
  21. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    No idea what that means, sorry.
     
  22. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    The sick should DIE and the weak perish. Klingon Welfare State
     
    crank likes this.
  23. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Behold, ladies and gentlemen, the text book example of the conservative mindset; which assumes everyone who cannot afford health care is a 'lazy bum' and a 'mooch'.
     
  24. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    I believe a civilized society has a moral imperative to make sure it's citizens have access to affordable health care.

    The entire premise of UHC is that spreading the costs across the country, though according to ability to pay, is the moral basis, and that, on an averaged basis, will cost the society less than the current system because premiums will be eliminated, and the averaged taxation will be less than the premiums because the middlemen, the insurance layer, will be moot.

    Those who argue 'but I love my current benefits'. No 'plan' is better than one that covers everything (within reason, we can't expect UHC to pay for cosmetic surgery). What plan could be better than that? Now, I'm not advocating for a 'government run hospital' I'm advocating single payer. The country would still be filled with private clinics, nothing really changes, only the method of payment. As for what the gov pays, there has to be a commission dedicated to the task of pricing, of which 50% of that task force should come form people who have worked in, and are experts in, medical costs and administration. Those who can afford to apy directly, should be allowed just as if you want to take your child to a private school, you can.

    No system is perfect. but a system that lets millions go without access to affordable care, is not a moral society.
     
  25. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Appendum:

    Behold, ladies and gentlemen, the text book example of the conservative and/or libertarian mindset; which assumes everyone who cannot afford health care is a 'lazy bum' and a 'mooch'.
     

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